I think we touched on this before....Follow

It depends on their stage of cognitive development. Both sets of cognitions amount to, "If I do A, Mom/Dad does B, and B is bad, therefore A is bad." The reasoning is just more sophisticated in the second case.

You seem to be saying that:

is not a good thing, but honestly, when it's all they are capable of comprehending, then it's getting the job done of conveying to the child that there are certain lines that SHALL NOT BE CROSSED.

I know the gold standard is for Mom/Dad to always be this wonderful, glowing, safe presence, but that doesn't have to equate to "Mom/Dad = Doormat." If the child feels TOO safe, to the point where he thinks he can do absolutely anything and there will be no ramifications, then there needs to be a reality check, a point at which they understand, if they cross the line, Mom/Dad will not be so safe, Mom/Dad can be a bit scary (not harmful-scary, just surprising-scary), so it's best not to cross that line.

Even a toddler has the cognitive ability to form the association, "throwing myself down on the aisle of the grocery store and kicking boxes of cereal onto the floor = SafeMommy becomes ScaryMommy, thus throwing myself down on the aisle of the grocery store and kicking boxes of cereal onto the floor = BAD."

"In my old wrestling singleton! Do you want to be scarred for life, Timmy? DO YOU?"

I hear what you're saying Ambrya, but none of it points to spanking as being a solution, just some sort of punishment. We are in agreement that there need to be limitations/boundaries, and punishment, but just not that that needs to be physical striking of some kind.

Nexa

Yikes, see, and that's too much for me. My mom gave me a novela-style slap and a hissed "I am your MOTHER" that still makes me tear up even to this day.

We hispanics have la chancla voladora, which is when your parents become furstrated enough that they toss their flip-flop, boomerang-style at you as you run down the hall. It can also be done with vegetables, if you happen to tick them off when they're cooking.

Beware the squash of doom!

Beware the squash of doom!

Plantains are more aerodynamic.

I talked back to my Dad when I was 16 and he belted me under the chin. I swear I had trouble chewing for 2 weeks.

Big deal. My mom stabbed me in the leg with a number two pencil and broke it off.

I still have the graphite scar. True story.

Someone - Ambrya? - made the distinction of spanking as discipline and spanking out of anger. Kids know the difference. I knew the difference, when it was my dad belting my brother.

I would tend to assume that hitting a kid out of anger would be more conducive to the Bad Stuff. I have nothing to back that up with, though.

While you're looking, see if you can find any study that was able to differentiate between rational spanking and irrational lashing out.

Yeah.. sure Smokey McStoner...

http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/113/5/1321

It's a little dense, but nothing most of this crowd can't handle.

I thought it was interesting because it was relatively on point, looking at spanking very young children < 2years.


Previous empirical studies of the relationship of spanking with child behavior problems have in general not included children younger than 2. In this study, we explored the association of spanking frequency before age 2 with children's risk for significant behavior problems ~4 years later, after they had entered school. Among children in this sample, spanking frequency before age 2 was a substantial predictor of a child's risk for behavior problems at school age for white non-Hispanic children only.

These associations are consistent with those reported in previous studies of European American and African American children older than 2. Deater-Deckard et al43 reported that spanking was positively correlated with child externalizing behaviors in subsequent years among European American children but was not significantly correlated with behavior problems among African American children. Gunnoe and Mariner45 reported that spanking frequency at ages 5 to 11 was significantly associated with an increase in fighting 5 years later among European American children but was also significantly related to a decrease in fighting among African American children. Finally, McLeod et al,46 who also used data from the NLSY-MC, reported that spanking frequency at ages 4 and above predicted significantly greater antisocial behavior among European Americans 2 years later, but the association was not statistically significant among African Americans.



Which is pretty odd, frankly. Spank a white kid, he acts out, spank a black kid, no problems.

Strange.

Edit: Reading on, it seems that they theorize that spanking kids as 'the last resort' is actually far more likely to cause them to act out than if it's a standard commonplace punishment. Apparently white folks tend to use it only in rare circumstances, a supposition supported by this thread so far.

Interesting.

Here's the discussion piece:


Spanking is thought to have greater "normative acceptance" in African American families,7,52,53 which could mean that African American children and parents are relatively less likely to perceive spanking as harsh or unfair. Alternatively, in white non-Hispanic communities—where spanking is used less frequently and where its use is thought to be more stigmatizing—frequent spanking before age 2 could be associated with other factors that indicate relatively greater developmental risk, such as high parent stress. Both interpretations are consistent with our finding (shown in Fig 1) that compared with African American and Hispanic families, child behavior problems that require a parent-teacher meeting were predicted to be relatively less common in white non-Hispanic families when spanking before age 2 was infrequent, whereas the relative ordering was the reverse in families in which spanking was relatively frequent. However, in predictions of risk for behavior problem ratings above the 90th percentile (Fig 2), African American children were predicted to be at greater risk at all spanking frequencies, suggesting that in both groups, more frequent spanking was associated with greater behavioral risk.






Edited, Mar 15th 2007 1:08pm by Smasharoo