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Intensive Farming?Follow

#1 Mar 12 2007 at 1:49 PM Rating: Good
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Intensive Farming
1 - Is necessary to produce enough meat for a growing population:4 (6.3%)
2 - Is barbaric, and I try to eat meat that is reared humanely:12 (19.0%)
3 - I don't give a Shit. Throw it on the Grill already!:36 (57.1%)
4 - I'm a vegetarian, and intensive farming is the main reason:1 (1.6%)
5 - I'm a vegetarian regardless of how animals are reared.:4 (6.3%)
6 - It depends if the ickle animals is all cute and fwuffy.:6 (9.5%)
Total:63
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#2 Mar 12 2007 at 1:57 PM Rating: Decent
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7. Is necessary to hit 10k
#3 Mar 12 2007 at 2:04 PM Rating: Excellent
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By in large, I don't care. The other day I was in a Chipolte and saw a sign saying that their beef came from cows not treated with Bovine Growth Hormones and thought "Well, that's a good thing." Then I thought that, while it might be a good thing, I'll probably never base my lunch choices on whether or not the restaurant uses BGH treated meat or even actively wonder if my lunch is BGH free or not.
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Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#4 Mar 12 2007 at 2:30 PM Rating: Default
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Ooooh!

A subject close to my heart!

Im a vegetarian. For dozens of reasons. But if I had to choose just three reasons it would be...

1. The water used to produce 10 lbs of steak is equivalent to the average consumption of water for an entire household for an entire year.

2. Every year in the UK, livestock is given enough food to feed 250,000,000 people while in the world 30,000,000 people die of starvation .

3. Meat (particularly intensively farmed meat)is full of traces of antibiotics, hormones, toxins produced by stress & pesticide residues that become concentrated from all the crops they have eaten. (My original reason for stopping eating farmed animals)

In my mind there is nothing inherently wrong with people eating meat. Once, maybe twice a month. But 3 times a day!

Thats just wrong.

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#5 Mar 12 2007 at 2:31 PM Rating: Good
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paulsol the Flatulent wrote:
Ooooh!

A subject close to my heart!

Im a vegetarian. For dozens of reasons. But if I had to choose just three reasons it would be...

1. The water used to produce 10 lbs of steak is equivalent to the average consumption of water for an entire household for an entire year.

2. Every year in the UK, livestock is given enough food to feed 250,000,000 people while in the world 30,000,000 people die of starvation .

3. Meat (particularly intensively farmed meat)is full of traces of antibiotics, hormones, toxins produced by stress & pesticide residues that become concentrated from all the crops they have eaten. (My original reason for stopping eating farmed animals)

In my mind there is nothing inherently wrong with people eating meat. Once, maybe twice a month. But 3 times a day!

Thats just wrong.

So what you're saying is that you can ESAD with a clear conscience.

Gotcha
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#6 Mar 12 2007 at 2:34 PM Rating: Good
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paulsol the Flatulent wrote:
Ooooh!

A subject close to my heart!

Im a vegetarian. For dozens of reasons. But if I had to choose just three reasons it would be...

1. The water used to produce 10 lbs of steak is equivalent to the average consumption of water for an entire household for an entire year.

2. Every year in the UK, livestock is given enough food to feed 250,000,000 people while in the world 30,000,000 people die of starvation .

3. Meat (particularly intensively farmed meat)is full of traces of antibiotics, hormones, toxins produced by stress & pesticide residues that become concentrated from all the crops they have eaten. (My original reason for stopping eating farmed animals)

In my mind there is nothing inherently wrong with people eating meat. Once, maybe twice a month. But 3 times a day!

Thats just wrong.



This thread makes me want steak.
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#7 Mar 12 2007 at 2:35 PM Rating: Excellent
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paulsol the Flatulent wrote:
2. Every year in the UK, livestock is given enough food to feed 250,000,000 people while in the world 30,000,000 people die of starvation.
Really though, I don't think I'd want to eat a cow's annual supply of feed corn, grass and the occassional animal by-product.
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#8 Mar 12 2007 at 2:38 PM Rating: Good
I am raising chickens for the purpose of feeding them to my dogs. I will not be eating my dogs, though.
#9 Mar 12 2007 at 2:39 PM Rating: Excellent
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Will you be selling your dogs to Korean restaurants?
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#10 Mar 12 2007 at 2:40 PM Rating: Good
No, I'll be trading them for more chickens.
#11 Mar 12 2007 at 3:04 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
2. Every year in the UK, livestock is given enough food to feed 250,000,000 people while in the world 30,000,000 people die of starvation .


Besides what Jophiel said about the feed situation, what if that livestock fed 400,000,000 people annualy? Wasn't the feed better served and less people starved to death than would have?


Considering this quote smells of pulled-out-of-assness, I figured I would add my own
#12 Mar 12 2007 at 3:11 PM Rating: Default
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Pulled out of my *** or not, the fact is that growing millions of tons of Hi-protein soya using unsustainable farming practices in environmentally fragile areas, and then feeding that soya to cows and pigs, so that lard assed meateaters can eat burgers for a dollar a pop, seems pretty fucking stupid to me.

Or are we not worrying about global warming and environmental catastrophe this week?
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#13 Mar 12 2007 at 3:14 PM Rating: Good
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paulsol the Flatulent wrote:

Or are we not worrying about global warming and environmental catastrophe this week?
That's next week, silly.

You're such a fuddy-duddy
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#14 Mar 12 2007 at 3:20 PM Rating: Excellent
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Nobby wrote:
Intensive Farming?


If it has a good drop, I don't see why not.
#15 Mar 12 2007 at 3:27 PM Rating: Decent
Quote:
2. Every year in the UK, livestock is given enough food to feed 250,000,000 people while in the world 30,000,000 people die of starvation.


To be honest, if that land were not used to grow grain to feed animals, it likely would not be profitable enough to put to use selling food directly to humans. Even if it were, it likely would not effect the food prices significantly. Even if it did, that would be highly unlikely to prevent humans from starving.

My understanding is human starvation is virtually totally unrelated to eating meat. It is other people (us) not choosing to do what is needed to feed them, and factors (some human, some not) which allowed them to grow food in the past, and not now.

By and large, human starvation is a transportation and donation problem - not a problem of the planet being unable to sustain this many humans.

If there seriously were a shortage of food for human consumption on the planet as a whole, you'd have a point. As it is, you could just as well claim you don't own a cell phone because what we all spend on cell phones would be enough to feed all those starving people (hundreds of times over, in all likelihood). Or, more aptly, that you don't own a car because that car could be used to drive food out to starving people.

I really don't buy much meat to cook up at home. When I do, my local market has free range, hormone free, anti-biotic free versions for not much more then the average stuff. I was totally shocked when I went to buy turkeys for thanksgiving that this held true.

I'll add a couple caveats to this: 1) I live in the people's republic of california. 2) the selection isn't nearly as good - particularly of ground meats. 3) you won't get giant turkeys - which is fine I'm not chef enough to make the larger bird (say, a 20 lb one) cook as evenly as a smaller one (my understanding is that it is tricky). 4) yep, it is a bit more expensive. I make enough money and don't buy very much of the stuff, but I would not buy the pricey stuff if I couldn't afford it.

A vegetarian diet has many benefits. You can save money and feel healthier.

I don't know anyone who eats any significant quantity of meat three times per day.
#16 Mar 12 2007 at 4:32 PM Rating: Decent
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Firstly, I agree that distribution is the main problem when it comes to deficiencies in food supply in many parts of the world. There is obviously enough food being produced globally to feed us all. But the fact that half the world is obese, and the other half is malnourished shows that sharing it out is the problem. (as an aside I disagree with the whole GMO "answer to all our food problems' thing for this very reason).

I wasn't really suggesting that if the land in europe wasn't used for growing animal feed, then it would be used for growing food for humans. Nonetheless, it takes a LOT more land to produce 1kilo of beef, than it does 1 kilo of grain. Also a LOT more water. And it would be quite nice to see trees and hedgerows agin rather than the giant fields we see now.

No, what I was getting at was the amount of land in places like the Amazon Basin (link) that is being used to grow soya beans with the sole purpose of feeding stock, so that people can still buy buckets of fried chicken at artificially low prices. Its short term profiteering at the expense of the world as a whole.

Personally I would prefer people didn't eat meat at all. Its not a neccassary part of our diet. I havn't eaten it in 25 years, and I'm extremely healthy. But if peopple do choose to eat it, it should be priced at a realistic level.

So many of the health problems we see today have their basis in our diet. And because meat is such a large part of many peoples diets, things like heart disease have risen exponentially. Its not just the quantity of meat eaten, its the quality. cheap intensively reared animals, produces unhealthy meat that is full of the same chemical compounds that are fed to the animals to make them grow so fast.

For example It takes about 29 days for an intensively farmed chicken to go from hatching to slaughter. naturally, it would take several months.

I used to think "so what if people want to eat fried **** from a bucket, as long as its not harming me". But after many years as a non meat eater, I've come to the conclusion that as long as the human race as a whole continues to intensivley farm animals for food, when there are better healthier alternatives, then those farming methods are harming the planet as a whole. And the sooner we stop, the better.

And that argument that says, 'we were evolved/designed to eat meat'. yup we were. but theres a BIG difference between hunting and killing the occasional Oryx, and stuffing ya face with factory farmed meat.

The main argument for the continuation of a meat diet seems to always boil down to 'I like eating meat. It tastes good'.

Pretty similar to "but I like having slaves, they do all the work for free".

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#17 Mar 12 2007 at 4:59 PM Rating: Excellent
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I thought this was going to be about posty counts.
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#18 Mar 12 2007 at 5:42 PM Rating: Decent
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paulsol the Flatulent wrote:

I wasn't really suggesting that if the land in europe wasn't used for growing animal feed, then it would be used for growing food for humans. Nonetheless, it takes a LOT more land to produce 1kilo of beef, than it does 1 kilo of grain. Also a LOT more water. And it would be quite nice to see trees and hedgerows agin rather than the giant fields we see now.


You do know that some of the land used for growing cattle is not farmable. Saying it could be used to grow grains is just stupid. Also you're assuming it's all potable water, which again isn't completely true.
#19 Mar 12 2007 at 6:19 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Saying it could be used to grow grains is just stupid.


not as stupid as thinking that that is what I said......
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#20 Mar 12 2007 at 6:29 PM Rating: Excellent
Sometimes I don't even really eat meat, I just chew it up a bit and then I spit the cow-pulp into a bucket. These little hunks and globs of squishy flesh I save, and I call them "Tears of Paulsol".
#21 Mar 12 2007 at 6:39 PM Rating: Excellent
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paulsol the Flatulent wrote:
No, what I was getting at was the amount of land in places like the Amazon Basin (link) that is being used to grow soya beans with the sole purpose of feeding stock, so that people can still buy buckets of fried chicken at artificially low prices.
But if I eat beef, pork or chicken fed with corn/soy grown in the American midwest using modern and sustainable agricultural practices then you don't mind?
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Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#22 Mar 12 2007 at 6:39 PM Rating: Good
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Thanks BT. Reading a response to a thread in the Asylum hasn't produced a full-bodied laugh like that in quite some time.
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#23 Mar 12 2007 at 8:49 PM Rating: Good
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There is this swing to corporate industrialized agriculture that tries to squeeze as much out of as little as possible that is very troubling.

Animals injected with hormones to increase mass and growth, the copyrighting of genetically enhanced seeds (if their seeds blow into your fields it is your fault and you are libel for it), the erosion of small family farming, the sub standard regulation of the slaughtering industry both in cleaninless and worker safety/coverage.

Look at intensive pork production. Basically creates more ******* than the lan can reasonably process and it becomes pretty much toxic, not to mention you can smell it from miles and miles away. Then you look at the conditions in which the pigs are kept. I don't expect animals that are born to be slaughtered to be living in a happy go lucky world but really the conditions are sickening and degrading that humans could treat an animal in such a way.


Then you have the use of pesticides and herbicides in other forms of intensive agriculture that is also alarming. It poisons the land, gets into water tables, affects local wild life population.

For thousands of years we had a myriad of agricultural methods that managed to keep us fed while maintaining an natural equilibirium that is so vitally important. It is only in the last hundred years that wide spread destructive forced commercial production of agricultural has been causing trouble. While highly profitable in the short term it is not workable for long term sustained development of one of our greatest resources, agriculture.
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#24 Mar 12 2007 at 8:58 PM Rating: Default
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My sister is on a vegen trip because of some video she saw on the net. It showed how animals are treated cruely during harvesting and how they are treated while they are alive. Because of that, she won't eat any fish, beef, pork, chicken, eggs, milk... basically anything taken from animals... I just think she's insane... now for that pork chop... mmmmm
#25 Mar 12 2007 at 10:33 PM Rating: Decent
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I agree that distribution of the foodstuff is the main problem. We need to airdrop large quantities of meat to starving populations. And if these cases of free-falling beef happen to land on and squish several hundred 30-pound adolescent Somalis, then that just further reduces the crisis.
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#26 Mar 13 2007 at 3:07 AM Rating: Decent
I love meat. I absolutely adore a nice fillet steak, there is nothing nicer in the world.

I do have a problem with intensive farming, or feeding dead cows to other cows. I also have a problem with battery chicken, and hormone-fileld beef, and all those other unantural ways of breeding meat.

Not because of the ethical reason, but because it takes so much of the taste away.

Seriously, eat a nice, natural, fillet steak (French, preferably, but Argentinian will do), and you'll never be able to go back to that awful crap steak you get in supermarkets.

It's all about standards.
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