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Once Fidel kicks it...Follow

#1 Mar 05 2007 at 4:19 PM Rating: Excellent
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...Is it time to drop the economic sanctions on Cuba?

Has it done any good? Would a shift in US policy facilitate a change in government in Cuba or would it just be business as usual with Raul in charge? And does it even matter? Of all the socialist/communist governments, why worry so much about Cuba?

Apparently, there's been a handful of bills floated since January which would loosen trade restrictions, agricultural trade, tourism, etc in the wake of Fidel's eventual demise.
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#2 Mar 05 2007 at 4:23 PM Rating: Good
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Of all the socialist/communist governments, why worry so much about Cuba?

Are you proposing we turn our eyes northward? Towards our hockey loving "friends?"

On subject though. I would be very surprised if the sanctions held up once Castro finally kicks the bucket. Cuba has nearly become irrelevant in the last ten years imo. I think that the situation in Cuba wouldn't necessarily improve a great deal with Raul in charge. But I do think with a new face in office there would be very serious talk of losing the sanctions.

The sanctions were placed how long ago?(honest question)
#3 Mar 05 2007 at 4:23 PM Rating: Good
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Is it time to drop the economic sanctions on Cuba?


Of course not, it's time for a poorly planned special ops run invasion utilizing 'cubanapluts' and 'jintera trebouchet' firing off of Key West.
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#4 Mar 05 2007 at 4:24 PM Rating: Good
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Even if they did lift travel restrictions, Cuba would not be on the top of my list.
#5 Mar 05 2007 at 4:25 PM Rating: Excellent
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Brill wrote:
The sanctions were placed how long ago?(honest question)
Since '62.

Edit: Well, it's more complicated than that since aspects have come and gone and come back again. Here's a link to a Wikipedia article about it.

Edited, Mar 5th 2007 4:27pm by Jophiel
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#6 Mar 05 2007 at 4:27 PM Rating: Excellent
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Jophiel wrote:
...Is it time to drop the economic sanctions on Cuba?


Yes.

Nexa
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#7 Mar 05 2007 at 4:46 PM Rating: Decent
They're snakes.

Source: www.state.gov/p/wha/rls/fs/2001/2558.htm

The relationship between the United States and Cuba for the last 40 years has been marked by tension and confrontations. The United States recognized the new Cuban government, headed by Fidel Castro, on January 7, 1959. However, bilateral relations deteriorated rapidly as the regime expropriated U.S. properties and moved towards adoption of a one-party Marxist-Leninist system. As a result, the United States established an embargo on Cuba in October 1960 and broke diplomatic relations the following January. Tensions between the two governments peaked during the April 1961 "Bay of Pigs" invasion and the October 1962 missile crisis.

Cuba established close ties with the Soviet Union and served as a Soviet surrogate in Africa and several countries in Latin America, which fueled cold war tensions and kept the bilateral relationship distant during the 1960s. In the 1970s, during the Nixon administration, the United States and Cuba began to explore normalizing relations, but the talks were suspended in 1975 when Cuba launched a large-scale intervention in Angola. The United States and Cuba did established interests sections in their respective capitals in September 1977 to facilitate consular relations and provide a venue for dialogue, and both currently operate under the protection of the Embassy of Switzerland. Cuban international entanglements in the 1970s, such as deploying troops to Ethiopia and allowing Soviet forces on the island, continued to strain bilateral relations.

In the 1980s the focus of friction in U.S.-Cuban relations shifted to include immigration, as well as Cuba’s international engagements, when a migration crisis unfolded. In April 1980 an estimated ten thousand Cubans stormed the Peruvian embassy in Havana seeking political asylum. Eventually, the Cuban government allowed 125,000 Cubans to illegally depart for the United States from the port of Mariel, an incident known as the "Mariel boatlift." A number of criminals and mentally ill persons were involuntarily included. Quiet efforts to explore the prospects for improving relations were initiated in 1981-82 under the Reagan administration, but ceased as Cuba continued to intervene in Latin America. In 1983, the United States and regional allies forced the withdrawal of the Cuban presence in Grenada.

In 1984, the United States and Cuba negotiated an agreement to resume normal immigration, interrupted in the wake of the 1980 Mariel boatlift, and to return to Cuba those persons who had arrived during the boatlift who were "excludable" under U.S. law. Cuba suspended this agreement in May 1985 following the U.S. initiation of Radio Marti broadcasts to the island, but it was reinstated in November 1987. In March 1990, TV Marti transmissions began to Cuba.

The 1990s witnessed another migration crisis that set back U.S.-Cuban relations. When demonstrations fueled by food shortages and prolonged unannounced blackouts erupted in Havana in August 1994, the Cuban Government responded by allowing some 30,000 Cubans to set sail for the United States, many in unsafe boats and rafts, which resulted in a number of deaths at sea. The two countries in September 1994 and May 1995 signed migration accords with the goal of cooperating to ensure safe, legal, and orderly migration.

On February 24, 1996, further worsening relations, the Cuban military shot down two U.S. registered civil aircraft in international airspace, killing three U.S. citizens and one U.S. resident. The unlawful and unwarranted attack on two unarmed U.S. civilian aircrafts resulted in the deaths of Armando Alejandre Jr., Carlos Alberto Costa, Mario M. de la Peña, and Pablo Morales. Immediately after this brutal act, and in response to this violation of international aviation law, Congress and former President Clinton passed the Cuban Liberty and Democratic Solidarity Act, also known as the Libertad Act. The legislation, among other provisions, codified the U.S. trade embargo into law and imposed additional sanctions on the Cuban regime.

And what's worse... they're rubbing elbows with Jugo Chavez.

(Edit.) If we're expected to believe that Raul isn't warm-heartedly reassuring Fidel that his socialist intentions will be continued after his demise, then we're just blind.

Edited, Mar 5th 2007 7:54pm by rdmZANDER
#8 Mar 05 2007 at 5:55 PM Rating: Decent
rdmZANDER wrote:
(Edit.) If we're expected to believe that Raul isn't warm-heartedly reassuring Fidel that his socialist intentions will be continued after his demise, then we're just blind.

Edited, Mar 5th 2007 7:54pm by rdmZANDER


If we're expected to believe that Raul's actually going to bother keeping his word, then we're just as blind.

When Fidel kicks the bucket, we're gonna have another Haiti in the Caribbean, more likely than not.
#9 Mar 05 2007 at 6:00 PM Rating: Decent
I think it's time to have another vote on Cuba to make Democrats look bad. Most of the people passionately concerned with this issue, who vote in the US, are not for lifting sanctions (to my, limited, knowledge).

That said, of course I'd lift the sanctions.
#10 Mar 05 2007 at 6:23 PM Rating: Excellent
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You always have more influence on your friends than on your enemies. We should have lifted the sanctions as soon as the Soviet Union dissolved.
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#11 Mar 05 2007 at 6:33 PM Rating: Excellent
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I say just take the damn place as territory. We got more bombs that them and I'm sure they must be hiding a WMD in there somewhere.
#12 Mar 05 2007 at 6:40 PM Rating: Excellent
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It'll never happen. We can't afford to let Gitmo become US territory. Shipping all of our captives to Eastern Europe is much too expensive.
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#13 Mar 05 2007 at 8:32 PM Rating: Good
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Lifting the sanctions is long overdue. It hasn't done any good for decades.

Quote:
Of all the socialist/communist governments, why worry so much about Cuba?


Because they're on our back porch. And they've got some pretty hot chicas. We could really develop the **** industry there.
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#14 Mar 05 2007 at 11:54 PM Rating: Decent
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What we did with China, we can do with Cuba. Those ******* over there are hot.
#15 Mar 06 2007 at 12:29 AM Rating: Decent
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Brill wrote:
Quote:
Of all the socialist/communist governments, why worry so much about Cuba?

Are you proposing we turn our eyes northward? Towards our hockey loving "friends?"

On subject though. I would be very surprised if the sanctions held up once Castro finally kicks the bucket. Cuba has nearly become irrelevant in the last ten years imo. I think that the situation in Cuba wouldn't necessarily improve a great deal with Raul in charge. But I do think with a new face in office there would be very serious talk of losing the sanctions.

The sanctions were placed how long ago?(honest question)


Castro is in fact Canadian.

True story.
#16 Mar 06 2007 at 2:32 AM Rating: Decent
It's quite a paradox that the sanctions probably helped Fidel's regime long-term stability. The failures of his regime are all blamed on the US sanctions. Lack of basic products? US sanctions. Lack of improvment? US sanctions. People being put in jail for dissent? Why, they must be in the pockets of those Americans.

That's what sanctions tend to do to dictatorial regimes, especially if they have been in place for 50 years. It strengthens them, and gives them an ennemy, a Graet Satan on which you can blame everything and deflect attention from domestic problems.

But does anyone ever ask why sanctions are still in place? Is it because of the nationalisation of American companies that happened over half a century ago? Is because Cuba is a "threat"? Or is it because of the pressure from exiled Cubans? In other words, are those sanctions a question of interntional politics, or of domestic politics?

It's quite easy to figure that one out.

What's less easy to figure out is what the freaking fUck Guanto is doing in Cuba. It's a bit like the US opening an execution chamber in Iran (which they might do soon anyway, but that's another story).

Anyway, Cuba today needs help. It doesn't need sanctions, or boycotts, or jaw-jaw. It needs help, and trade. And considering the state of Castro's regime, there is no doubt they would accept anything the US would give them.

The best way to deal with such a regime is not to isolate it, but to engange with it through trade and cutural cooperation.

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#17 Mar 06 2007 at 2:52 AM Rating: Decent
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Really, I mean really can Cuba bee that much of a threat. What have they done in the past 40 some odd years. Besides give us that kid in the 90's. I say lift the sancionts they serrve a beeter pourpos ethat being the black sheep of our hemisphere. I mean Baseball come on.
#18 Mar 06 2007 at 5:10 AM Rating: Excellent
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Monsieur RedPhoenixxx wrote:
But does anyone ever ask why sanctions are still in place?
Well, yeah. All the time.
Quote:
What's less easy to figure out is what the freaking fUck Guanto is doing in Cuba.
Do you mean the base or its current use as a detention facility? The base is there pretty much because it can be -- we have legal claim to the lease and it's a good spot for a military base. Hell, although I disagree with the details of how we're doing it, it's a good spot for a prison as well: we already have the Cuban side fenced off (and Cuba has a bunch of mines, guards, etc to keep Cubans from reaching the base) and the rest is ocean.
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#19 Mar 06 2007 at 5:22 AM Rating: Good
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It would be nice to get Cuban cigars at Walmart.

#20 Mar 06 2007 at 5:25 AM Rating: Decent
Jophiel wrote:
Monsieur RedPhoenixxx wrote:
But does anyone ever ask why sanctions are still in place?
Well, yeah. All the time.


And what's the answer?


Quote:
Do you mean the base or its current use as a detention facility?


I mean that I find it strange to have this lease from an "ennemy".

You'd think that Cuba would refuse to have its territory used by the American imperialists for their wars of dominance, and that the US would refuse to use the Commy ennemy's territory for its wars of freedom.

It's as though I used gbaji email's address to store my essays on the inevitable victory of socialism.
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#21 Mar 06 2007 at 5:28 AM Rating: Decent
Jophiel wrote:
and Cuba has a bunch of mines, guards, etc to keep Cubans from reaching the base


I didn't think Cuba was that bad...
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#22 Mar 06 2007 at 5:31 AM Rating: Excellent
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Monsieur RedPhoenixxx wrote:
And what's the answer?
Like most things, it depends on who you ask.
Quote:
I mean that I find it strange to have this lease from an "ennemy".
Well, we do. And Castro doesn't cash our checks which makes it that much better.
Quote:
You'd think that Cuba would refuse to have its territory used by the American imperialists for their wars of dominance, and that the US would refuse to use the Commy ennemy's territory for its wars of freedom.
It's good real estate. Nice spot in the Caribbean, easy access to a potentially hostile neighbor, etc. It'd be silly to give it up from any practical standpoint. As for Cuba, what are they going to do? We have a legal diplomatic claim to it via our agreement. They certainly can't force us out militarily. Their other option is to do what? Grind their teeth and not cash the checks, apparently.
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#23 Mar 06 2007 at 5:32 AM Rating: Excellent
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Monsieur RedPhoenixxx wrote:
Jophiel wrote:
and Cuba has a bunch of mines, guards, etc to keep Cubans from reaching the base
I didn't think Cuba was that bad...
According to The Straight Dope...
Cecil Adams wrote:
The landward side of the base is completely surrounded with the whole Berlin Wall scene of landmines, barbed wire, and watchtowers, erected in stages after Castro's takeover because (a) the Americans got tired of having the Cubans throw rocks at them and (b) the Cubans got tired of having their countrymen jump the fence and ask for political asylum.
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#24 Mar 06 2007 at 5:44 AM Rating: Decent
Jophiel wrote:
It's good real estate. Nice spot in the Caribbean, easy access to a potentially hostile neighbor, etc. It'd be silly to give it up from any practical standpoint.


But, but, but... Freedom? And Democracy? And Communism, and the Evil Empire, and the "with us or against us"?

What happened to our principles!?

No, seriously, I understand the advantages of this place, it just seems a bit hypocritical.

Which is nothing new in international politics, granted.
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#25 Mar 06 2007 at 6:57 AM Rating: Excellent
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Monsieur RedPhoenixxx wrote:
But, but, but... Freedom? And Democracy? And Communism, and the Evil Empire, and the "with us or against us"?

What happened to our principles!?

No, seriously, I understand the advantages of this place, it just seems a bit hypocritical.
I don't understand what's hypocritical about it. The amount we spend to lease it annually is probably less than what we spend weekly in bottled water for Congress. Cuba certainly isn't profiting off of the deal (even if Castro cashed the checks). Even if you take the Communism/Evil Empire route, what better way to hedge in evil communists than to have a military base in their country?
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#26 Mar 06 2007 at 7:01 AM Rating: Good
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Oh heaven protect me I'm posting in the Asylum <.< >.> Brill protect me - LOL


The sad truth of it is all is that the embargo isn't really there. I guess on paper it is but in reality we still export approx $35 Billion in products to Cuba each year and Cuba is # 31 on out of 226 export countries for agricultural products.

Source

While it might not be "open" trade there is still a lot that goes on between us. I don't believe that at this point in time the sanctions is doing any good or serving any purpose.




Edited, Mar 6th 2007 10:03am by Orianah
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