trying to get a contractor to come out and lay a natrual gas pipe from my generator to my gas meter. for a year now.
last year, during the hurricanes, no chance. the only way to getthem to come out was promise them 2 or 3 grand plus what the job would cost. so, i waited a year. a year with no storms. now, i can get them to come out, but, in the true american capitolist fassion, they still want to price gouge and walk away if you balk.
200 bucks for a ditch witch. MABE 200 to 300 for materials depending on weather they use galvanized pipe or poly pipe. tops. 120 for permit fee. thats the total cost of the job for ANYONE not counting labor.
South End Plumbing. 1700 bucks. i asked what the extra grand was for, he said "thats just the way it is here".
Any Time Plumbing. 2900 bucks. didnt even try to justify the price, just shrugged his sholders and said, with a smile on his face, thats what i have to charge.
have a third contractor who is supposed to come out today, dont expect much differant but there is always hope.
my lawyer gets 250 bucks an hour. my plumber? he wants 600 to 1100 an hour. its a two hour job tops. my code enforement official? we dont handle price gouging, we just enfoce codes and fine the hell out of anyone who tries to do it themselves without a permit.
a licence to steal.
and we want to pass this wonderfull capitolist concept on to other countries? or boitch about immigrants who are willing to do the job for a FAIR price?
im thinking we need to clean up our stink, starting with plumbers and electricians in south florida before we try telling some one else how to run their bussiness.
for me? i will wait another year. hell, i may sell the house with an open permit for the unfinnished generator. but i sure as hell am not going to pay a plumber a rocket scientists wage. im ornery like that,
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Do it yourself.
Do it yourself. It's natural gas, not ******* uranium.
Disclaimer:
To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.
To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.
Do it yourself.
----------------------
cant. the permit people in city hall says any plumbing or electrical work MUST be done by a licensed contractor. i was able to do the slab for the generator myself, cost me 70 bucks in material and about 4 hours. couldnt even get someone to come give me an estimate unless i agreed to a minimum 500 charge plus materials and permits.
but the master permit has been pulled, so no way to close the permit unless i remove the slab, or complete the entire job. if i do it myself, and i can, its not rocket science, eventually, when i sell the house, i will have to remove the plumbing and electrical anyway to comply with the permit, or remove everything to close it.
it can sit their just like it is till i move as far as im concerned. then the new owner can complete it, or haul it to the dump. mabe some day, or some year, there will he a serious lull in plumbing work and electical work and i can getit done for a fair price. mabe. if not, its a lawn ornament.
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cant. the permit people in city hall says any plumbing or electrical work MUST be done by a licensed contractor. i was able to do the slab for the generator myself, cost me 70 bucks in material and about 4 hours. couldnt even get someone to come give me an estimate unless i agreed to a minimum 500 charge plus materials and permits.
but the master permit has been pulled, so no way to close the permit unless i remove the slab, or complete the entire job. if i do it myself, and i can, its not rocket science, eventually, when i sell the house, i will have to remove the plumbing and electrical anyway to comply with the permit, or remove everything to close it.
it can sit their just like it is till i move as far as im concerned. then the new owner can complete it, or haul it to the dump. mabe some day, or some year, there will he a serious lull in plumbing work and electical work and i can getit done for a fair price. mabe. if not, its a lawn ornament.
That $1700 price does not seem that high, might even be a little low. Take into consideration: the labor to do the job, which is probably 2 men x 2 hours, plus travel time to and from, plus the time to buy the materials; the depreciation value or rental value of equipment used; the office costs which includes all the paperwork that someone is doing to pay for the materials labor; the prorata portion of the rent/utilities/office tools/furniture for the office that person works in; the cost to get and maintain the license to be able to do the job; the cost of supervision for everyone involved; accounting fees for required audits and taxes and fees; the permit for the work, which is more than just the filing fee, there is the time to fill out the application and whatever backup is required and then the expeditors fee to file it.
shadowrelm wrote:
cant. the permit people in city hall says any plumbing or electrical work MUST be done by a licensed contractor.
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
So you can't get someone to lay pipe for you because you have gas?
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
Samira wrote:
So you can't get someone to lay pipe for you because you have gas?
*snicker*
Grow up Samira, geesh.
Nexa
“It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes. But a half-wit remains a half-wit, and the emperor remains an emperor.â€
― Neil Gaiman, The Sandman, Vol. 9: The Kindly Ones
― Neil Gaiman, The Sandman, Vol. 9: The Kindly Ones
shadowrelm wrote:
trying to get a contractor to come out and lay a natrual gas pipe from my generator to my gas meter. for a year now.
last year, during the hurricanes, no chance. the only way to getthem to come out was promise them 2 or 3 grand plus what the job would cost. so, i waited a year. a year with no storms. now, i can get them to come out, but, in the true american capitolist fassion, they still want to price gouge and walk away if you balk.
200 bucks for a ditch witch. MABE 200 to 300 for materials depending on weather they use galvanized pipe or poly pipe. tops. 120 for permit fee. thats the total cost of the job for ANYONE not counting labor.
South End Plumbing. 1700 bucks. i asked what the extra grand was for, he said "thats just the way it is here".
Any Time Plumbing. 2900 bucks. didnt even try to justify the price, just shrugged his sholders and said, with a smile on his face, thats what i have to charge.
have a third contractor who is supposed to come out today, dont expect much differant but there is always hope.
my lawyer gets 250 bucks an hour. my plumber? he wants 600 to 1100 an hour. its a two hour job tops. my code enforement official? we dont handle price gouging, we just enfoce codes and fine the hell out of anyone who tries to do it themselves without a permit.
a licence to steal.
and we want to pass this wonderfull capitolist concept on to other countries? or boitch about immigrants who are willing to do the job for a FAIR price?
im thinking we need to clean up our stink, starting with plumbers and electricians in south florida before we try telling some one else how to run their bussiness.
for me? i will wait another year. hell, i may sell the house with an open permit for the unfinnished generator. but i sure as hell am not going to pay a plumber a rocket scientists wage. im ornery like that,
last year, during the hurricanes, no chance. the only way to getthem to come out was promise them 2 or 3 grand plus what the job would cost. so, i waited a year. a year with no storms. now, i can get them to come out, but, in the true american capitolist fassion, they still want to price gouge and walk away if you balk.
200 bucks for a ditch witch. MABE 200 to 300 for materials depending on weather they use galvanized pipe or poly pipe. tops. 120 for permit fee. thats the total cost of the job for ANYONE not counting labor.
South End Plumbing. 1700 bucks. i asked what the extra grand was for, he said "thats just the way it is here".
Any Time Plumbing. 2900 bucks. didnt even try to justify the price, just shrugged his sholders and said, with a smile on his face, thats what i have to charge.
have a third contractor who is supposed to come out today, dont expect much differant but there is always hope.
my lawyer gets 250 bucks an hour. my plumber? he wants 600 to 1100 an hour. its a two hour job tops. my code enforement official? we dont handle price gouging, we just enfoce codes and fine the hell out of anyone who tries to do it themselves without a permit.
a licence to steal.
and we want to pass this wonderfull capitolist concept on to other countries? or boitch about immigrants who are willing to do the job for a FAIR price?
im thinking we need to clean up our stink, starting with plumbers and electricians in south florida before we try telling some one else how to run their bussiness.
for me? i will wait another year. hell, i may sell the house with an open permit for the unfinnished generator. but i sure as hell am not going to pay a plumber a rocket scientists wage. im ornery like that,
OK. . .
shadowrelm wrote:
power lies within shadows
"I started out with nothin' and I still got most of it left" - Seasick Steve
That $1700 price does not seem that high, might even be a little low. Take into consideration: the labor to do the job, which is probably 2 men x 2 hours, plus travel time to and from, plus the time to buy the materials; the depreciation value or rental value of equipment used;
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i can rent a ditchwitch for 60 bucks an hour from home depot. 45 minutes tops to dig the trench, mabe another hour for picking it up and droping it off, 2 hours, 3 tops. 180 bucks plus tax.
21 foot section of galvanized gas pipe, plus fittings and some smaller sections to connect? less than 200. around 150 is what a plumber whould charge a customer for it, which means they get it for half that. poly pipe is a little more expensive. close to 300 bucks.
permit, 120.
the MOST this job will cost is 180+300+120 = 600 bucks plus 2 hours of labor.
1700 bucks - 600 = 1100 for 2 hours labor.
i pay my lawyer 250 bucks an hour. i sure as hell am not going to pay a plumber 550 bucks an hour for laying pipe in the ground outside of a home. 2 people? he would have to bring 10 people to do this job to warrent that kind of price.
we havent even gotten to the electrician yet. last year, they wanted 2000 for the connection for the generator and 1500 for an engineer to draw up the plans. 3500 bucks for a hours worth of work and less that 100 bucks in material. just some conduit, some wire, a 65 amp breaker, and a plug box.
soo, lawn ornament. or, i remove the generator, break up the slap and have it inspected to close the permit, and do it all myself for under 600 bucks total for the slab, plumbing, and electrical without a permit.
with a permit = 5200 to 5500 out of pocket PLUS permit fees.
without a permit = 600 out of pocket.
a license to steal.
and the state wonders why they have such a hard time forcing people to get permits. mabe instead of looking at the user and finning them, they should focus on the price gouging contractors? but then,homeowners dont line politicians pockets with lobbiest dollars do they?
kind of like the situation with illegal immigrants. instead of going after the bussinesses that hire them to get out of paying into social security, workers comp and insurance, they go after the immigrants just trying to earn a buck to put food on the table. immigrants dont pay out lobbiest dollars either, do they?
the american way. feed the rich and bury the poor.
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i can rent a ditchwitch for 60 bucks an hour from home depot. 45 minutes tops to dig the trench, mabe another hour for picking it up and droping it off, 2 hours, 3 tops. 180 bucks plus tax.
21 foot section of galvanized gas pipe, plus fittings and some smaller sections to connect? less than 200. around 150 is what a plumber whould charge a customer for it, which means they get it for half that. poly pipe is a little more expensive. close to 300 bucks.
permit, 120.
the MOST this job will cost is 180+300+120 = 600 bucks plus 2 hours of labor.
1700 bucks - 600 = 1100 for 2 hours labor.
i pay my lawyer 250 bucks an hour. i sure as hell am not going to pay a plumber 550 bucks an hour for laying pipe in the ground outside of a home. 2 people? he would have to bring 10 people to do this job to warrent that kind of price.
we havent even gotten to the electrician yet. last year, they wanted 2000 for the connection for the generator and 1500 for an engineer to draw up the plans. 3500 bucks for a hours worth of work and less that 100 bucks in material. just some conduit, some wire, a 65 amp breaker, and a plug box.
soo, lawn ornament. or, i remove the generator, break up the slap and have it inspected to close the permit, and do it all myself for under 600 bucks total for the slab, plumbing, and electrical without a permit.
with a permit = 5200 to 5500 out of pocket PLUS permit fees.
without a permit = 600 out of pocket.
a license to steal.
and the state wonders why they have such a hard time forcing people to get permits. mabe instead of looking at the user and finning them, they should focus on the price gouging contractors? but then,homeowners dont line politicians pockets with lobbiest dollars do they?
kind of like the situation with illegal immigrants. instead of going after the bussinesses that hire them to get out of paying into social security, workers comp and insurance, they go after the immigrants just trying to earn a buck to put food on the table. immigrants dont pay out lobbiest dollars either, do they?
the american way. feed the rich and bury the poor.
Quote:
That $1700 price does not seem that high, might even be a little low. Take into consideration: the labor to do the job, which is probably 2 men x 2 hours, plus travel time to and from, plus the time to buy the materials; the depreciation value or rental value of equipment used; the office costs which includes all the paperwork that someone is doing to pay for the materials labor; the prorata portion of the rent/utilities/office tools/furniture for the office that person works in; the cost to get and maintain the license to be able to do the job; the cost of supervision for everyone involved; accounting fees for required audits and taxes and fees; the permit for the work, which is more than just the filing fee, there is the time to fill out the application and whatever backup is required and then the expeditors fee to file it.
If the contractor in question has to allocate overhead to do that small of a job then they are either in huge financial trouble or do about 10 jobs a year.
The CPA firm I work for does primarily construction (plumbing, mechanical, electrical, etc) work and $1,700 is not even close to 1% of their sales (try about 17,000 minimum for 1%, this is for our extremely small contractors).
So no it is not reasonable to try to allocate/estimate overhead charges to this small of a contract. It should of been x numbers of hours of labor + materials + 10-25% markup (about industry standard depending on location).
Edited, Mar 1st 2007 10:40am by Kronig
So no it is not reasonable to try to allocate/estimate overhead charges to this small of a contract. It should of been x numbers of hours of labor + materials + 10-25% markup (about industry standard depending on location).
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agree. and i can get cabinets installed for a fair price. counter tops, tile work, painting, interrior construction, doors installed, you name it, you can get it for a fair price. i even had my roof repaired by a licensed contractor for a fair price.
but plumbing and electrical work? they dont even want to talk to you unless you are going to give them atleast 1000 bucks of "just because" money before they will even give you the time of day. and why?
because they are the only two professions that a homeowner can not pull a owner/builder permit for and do it themselves.
a license to steal.
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agree. and i can get cabinets installed for a fair price. counter tops, tile work, painting, interrior construction, doors installed, you name it, you can get it for a fair price. i even had my roof repaired by a licensed contractor for a fair price.
but plumbing and electrical work? they dont even want to talk to you unless you are going to give them atleast 1000 bucks of "just because" money before they will even give you the time of day. and why?
because they are the only two professions that a homeowner can not pull a owner/builder permit for and do it themselves.
a license to steal.
Jesus, just pony up the cash.
You are aware that Contractors have to carry insurance and that is reflected in the price as well as the materials? Also, let's not forget that Electricians and Plumbers are (almost always) Union? Hell, a Journeyman can get 25 bucks an hour and a Master Plumber can get upwards of 50 dollars an hour.
Pay it or do it behind the citys back. Either way, quit your crying about it. I'm sure people complain about your salary for whatever it is you do.
You are aware that Contractors have to carry insurance and that is reflected in the price as well as the materials? Also, let's not forget that Electricians and Plumbers are (almost always) Union? Hell, a Journeyman can get 25 bucks an hour and a Master Plumber can get upwards of 50 dollars an hour.
Pay it or do it behind the citys back. Either way, quit your crying about it. I'm sure people complain about your salary for whatever it is you do.
Depending on where you live, you should be able to do the work yourself. While I suppose it's possible that you live in some sort of gestapo-land, most municipal codes allow for anyone (the property owner obviously) to do the work, you just have to pay for an inspector to verify that the work is up to code. The restrictions for who can do the work isn't based on who can "do the work", but who can legally "charge for the work". Since you're not paying yourself, those laws don't apply to you. If you have a permit to place the pipe (or don't need one), there should be nothing preventing you from doing the work yourself.
If you actually know what you're doing, this will save you a ton of money. If you don't know what you're doing, deal with the fact that you'll have to pay through the nose for someone who does.
If you actually know what you're doing, this will save you a ton of money. If you don't know what you're doing, deal with the fact that you'll have to pay through the nose for someone who does.
King Nobby wrote:
More words please
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