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The Power of Christ Compels You!Follow

#27 Feb 21 2007 at 1:20 PM Rating: Good
Ministry of Silly Cnuts
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Queen Annabella wrote:
I always thought that it was also around the nature of Jesus and Council of Chalcedon that caused another rift with many churches only willing to accept the doctrine from the first three councils. As a result,the Oriental Orthodox Church was created. Aren't those churches called Coptic at this point? Also the Council of Epheseus (sp) a few decades prior I think almost created a great schism.
My point was that after Nicaea none of the Councils were as fundamental.

Yes we have Russian Orthodoxy with it's Black & White Priests, Greek Orthodoxy with its worry beads, the Copts (mostly around the Horn of Africa - just got a Christmas Card from an Egyptian friend) and Roman Catholicism. They still followed the tenets of the Nicene Creed.

Even when Henry VIII founded "the Church of Brother's Wife-Shaggers" in the 1530s, he and Cranmer stuck by Nicaea's centrality.

Oh, and Smash was late with the "Diet of Worms" joke, so consider it told and feel free to slap your thighs, hold your sides etc etc


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#28 Feb 21 2007 at 1:25 PM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
didn't know the difference between the Immaculate Conception & the Annunciation. Smiley: grin
This reminds me. Earlier today, one of my Interpreters made fun of my "Indian dot" today. I told him he had the right continent, wrong religion. He told me he thought it was Indian b/c of my shirt (I'm wearing a kimono top) and because I "look Asian." Smiley: lol


Edited, Feb 21st 2007 3:26pm by Atomicflea
#29 Feb 21 2007 at 1:29 PM Rating: Good
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Atomicflea wrote:
Jophiel wrote:
didn't know the difference between the Immaculate Conception & the Annunciation. Smiley: grin
This reminds me. Earlier today, one of my Interpreters made fun of my "Indian dot" today. I told him he had the right continent, wrong religion. He told me he thought it was Indian b/c of my shirt (I'm wearing a kimono top) and because I "look Asian." Smiley: lol
Henceforth Shalt Thou be Called Bindi'Lo
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"I started out with nothin' and I still got most of it left" - Seasick Steve
#30 Feb 22 2007 at 6:29 AM Rating: Decent
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If you can truly describe it as such, the clearest "denominations" of atheism I've heard defined are "weak atheism" and "strong atheism".

Weak atheism = "I do not believe there is a god" = describes what the person DOES NOT believe but the person has not defined what they DO believe.

Strong atheism = "I believe there is no god" = describes the person's beliefs, arguably making it the more religious of the two.

Of course then you can throw agnosticism into the mix. Agnostic coming from the latin a- meaning "without" and gnosis meaning "knowledge". So by pure literal standards an agnostic would say "I don't know for certain if there is or is not a god", so they acknowledge their ignorance, but do not define their beliefs, putting them on par with "weak" atheists. However, by that definition one could be an agnostic atheist (an atheist who admits they might be wrong) or an agnostic christian (a christian who admits they might also be wrong). But then there are the historical denomination "The Agnostics" whose basic tenet was that the nature of god is unknowable, but in that very definition a belief in some unknowable form of a god is implicitly stated.

Point being, to state that there are "denominations" of atheism is pretty flawed, as atheists are pretty unorganized as religions go, lack any defined heirarchy, dogma, or clear principles. Atheism is an exclusive, not inclusive, term so you you would really just have to ask the individual atheist you are dealing with what they think about any given subject.

But you really probably aren't going to find many atheists tying people to wooden planks and killing them in an attempt to drive demons out of them, so the whole issue is moot.



Just wanted to say, this is a good post. I get tired of having to explain how not all people that don't believe in God are atheists.

I don't know that I'd necessarily use the terms "strong" and "weak" atheism because while the level of conviction may arguably vary, it's a little confusing if not condescending. It might be taken as those people have a weaker bond with their faith (or lack thereof) or that it is somehow inferior... neither of which are necessarily true. In retrospect I don't think there's any need for a categorical "weak atheism" because according to your definition a weak atheist is either someone with no beliefs (agnostic) or someone with a religion which is not atheism.

I think the best way to put it, is that aetheists are people of faith, as are agnostics (depending on which definition you use). The only people that cannot be classified as religious are that other camp of agnostics that truly believe nothing, some of which (like myself) are grounded in science. (If you have no beliefs, you still must act as if you do, so agnostics with no beliefs have to form pseudo-belief systems to act upon. I use the scientific method and inferential and deductive logic myself. Others use things similar to witchcraft or even other religions.)

Personally I find faith unsensible. People readily admit that faith is not knowledge, because if you knew, it wouldn't be faith. Well, if you don't know, then why pretend like you do? Why not just accept that you don't know? Is it so hard to be honest with yourself about your limitations? Seems much harder to me to try to convince myself of something which I have every right and reason to doubt.
#31 Feb 22 2007 at 7:01 AM Rating: Good
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I don't know that I'd necessarily use the terms "strong" and "weak" atheism because while the level of conviction may arguably vary, it's a little confusing if not condescending.
These are common terms used by many atheists on the internet to clarify their positions.
#32 Feb 22 2007 at 7:04 AM Rating: Decent
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Their popularity is pretty irrelevant to the points I made.
#33 Feb 23 2007 at 8:16 AM Rating: Good
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Kachi wrote:
Their popularity is pretty irrelevant to the points I made.


Actually to clarify my post, these are not MY terms. They are the terms that others have used to describe the varying degrees of atheism. I personally ascribe no merit to them, but only use them to point out that there are many schools of thought on atheism/agnosticism so the terms are devoid of anything but the most superficial of meanings and rarely accurately describe an individuals beliefs or lack thereof.

If I personally have to be pinned down to a term I usually say that I'm an agnostic atheist, in that I do not believe (there is/there are) a/any god(s)(-desses), but I have full understanding of my capability of being incorrect. Having said that, I'm also fully capable of understanding how others may be incorrect, and don't have much of an issue with pointing that out. So basically, devoid of any (good/logical/empirical) evidence to the contrary, I assume there is no god as defined by christians, just as I assume there are no gods as defined by the greeks, norse, or hindi, or as I assume that there are no invisible pink unicorns, magical fairies, or garden gnomes other than the statue variety.

However again I'd like to point out (because these crazy religious antics, while depressing, amuse me to some extent) that most, if not all, atheists lack the zealotry required to commit something as stupid as described in the OP.

Edited for grammar

Edited, Feb 23rd 2007 11:18am by Ridana
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