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Theoretical question about GWBFollow

#127 Feb 26 2007 at 8:23 PM Rating: Decent
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trickybeck wrote:
So, basically Bush did what every single republican endorses as economic policy, and what every Republican president has tried to do, and that makes him a genius? And all the Democratic presidents who had the opposite policy and still got the same economic results were just lucky? Interesting.


Clarification: Bush did what most Republican presidents have endorsed since the modern models of supply side economics came to exist (which occured roughly in the early 1970s). However, there has not been a Republican president at the same time as a Republican controlled Congress since 1955 (Eisenhower). Thus, the concepts of supply side economics have *never* been properly applied. Not until George W. Bush (and some would argue he still didn't apply them properly).


Are you arguing that Supply side economic theory is so superior to Demand side economic theory that an idiot could implement it and still get better results then the brightest president applying Demand side economics? Or did you mean something else?

Look. It doesn't matter who implements the policies. They work. Despite decades of Dems insisting that it doesn't (the so called "voodoo economics"), it does in fact work. And it works very very well. So well that even though Bush didn't fully implement them (to be fully supply side compliant he should have cut spending as well), they *still* produced the increases in economic growth and tax base that Republicans have been saying they would the whole time. His lack of spending cuts just meant it took longer for the deficit to fall, but the increases in growth were unaffected.


Which is the point. I'd also argue that this was the real reason the Dems were most concerned about the 2000 election and why it was such a sore point with them (almost a desperate one). I'd also suggest that it's the true underlying reason why the anti-Bush sentiment is so strong. You may think it's about wiretapping and wars and such, but those are just symptoms IMO. We've had wars before. Presidents have conducted wiretapping of foreigners before. Those are convenient issues for those "in power" on the left to use to rally the masses against George Bush, but I believe their motivation in doing so is economic (which is why I argue economics alot when we debate politics). Because if those same masses figured out that they could prosper just find with a smaller government, and that prosperity for all could increase with lower taxes, they'd be less willing to support anyone who ran on that sort of platform. This would effectively kill the central platform that Dems run on (well, they don't run on it, but their platform requires it): Tax and Spend. They require that the masses believe that the only way to make their own personal condition "better" is through direct government intervention. The Dems must convince them that higher taxes is always worth the increased benefits they will get as a result. If supply side economics was shown to work, and the masses realized it would work, you'd never get them to support a tax increase again...
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#128 Feb 26 2007 at 8:46 PM Rating: Decent
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Damn gbaji, aren't you getting dizzy yet?
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publiusvarus wrote:
we all know liberals are well adjusted american citizens who only want what's best for society. While conservatives are evil money grubbing scum who only want to sh*t on the little man and rob the world of its resources.
#129 Feb 26 2007 at 9:13 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
It's just as wrong to simply take the value when Clinton took office and the value when he left and try to compare it straight across to Bush's start and stop values.
Not really. "Change over president's term" is the quickiest and easiest way to go about it. I was only trying to account for the inevitable cries of "OMG Tech bubble!" that accompany any mention of the economy during Clinton's term as if the bubble went from 1992-2000
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Sure. But you're also not factoring in time.
Meh. I went from term start to finish. I went from low to high. I even went from low to adjusted high. I'm sure there's some way to finesse and massage the numbers until you can say "Clinton was no better than Bush!" but it's not by taking the data at face value. Apparently, it's now by ignoring the fact that 9/11 happened and blaming the entire low point in '02-'03 on Clinton.
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Depending on how you decide to plot that slope, you'll either get a value that favors Clinton slightly, or one that puts them both about equal, or one that favors Bush.
...as I was saying...
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When you compare unemployment, CPI deltas, Inflation, and GDP growth rates...
Again: Meh. I did a Google for Clinton CPI. I got a gajillion hits of "Clinton lied about the CPI and it was adjusted wrong so his economy really sucked!" I looked at other stuff and there's folks crediting all of Clinton's economic and budgetary gains to the Republican congress. You make sure to immmediately call Clinton's lower unemployment number "a wash". I honestly don't give enough of a fuck to argue partisan economics for another X many pages.

Going back to the original point this thread was founded on: without 9/11, Bush would have been a mediocre care-taker president who'd have failed in his major reform attempts and I doubt he'd have been re-elected in 2004.

Edited, Feb 26th 2007 9:16pm by Jophiel
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#130 Feb 27 2007 at 7:29 AM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
Thus, the concepts of supply side economics have *never* been properly applied. Not until George W. Bush (and some would argue he still didn't apply them properly).


Yeeeeeah, $8.7 trillion dollars and climbing says maybe not.
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#131 Feb 27 2007 at 12:26 PM Rating: Excellent
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Today's News wrote:
The Dow Jones industrial average is down more than 500 points with about an hour of trading left today. The Nasdaq Composite is off more than 100.

A 9 percent slide in Chinese stocks, which came a day after investors sent Shanghai's benchmark index to a record high close, set the tone for U.S. trading.

Investors' confidence was knocked down further by data showing that the economy may be decelerating more than anticipated. A Commerce Department report that orders for durable goods in January dropped by the largest amount in three months exacerbated jitters about the direction of the U.S. economy, which were raised a day earlier when former Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan said the United States may be headed for a recession.

"It looks more and more like the economy is a slow growth economy," said Michael Strauss, chief economist at Commonfund. "Moderate economic growth is good -- an abrupt stop in economic growth scares people."

The market had been expecting the government on Wednesday to revise its estimate of fourth-quarter GDP growth down to an annual rate of about 2.3 percent from an initial forecast of 3.5 percent, and grew increasingly nervous on Tuesday that the figure could come in even lower.

The housing market, which the Street had been hoping had bottomed out, also looked far from recovery after a Standard & Poor's index indicated that single-family home prices across the nation were flat in December. A later report from the National Association of Realtors said existing home sales climbed in January by the largest amount in two years, but the data didn't erase housing-related concerns, as median home prices fell for a sixth straight month.
I blame it all on Bush. Every last bit of it.
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#132 Feb 28 2007 at 4:21 PM Rating: Good
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That figures.

Lol

Totem
#133 Feb 28 2007 at 5:31 PM Rating: Decent
Jophiel wrote:
I blame it all on Bush. Every last bit of it.


Hm. I dunno that I'd give Bush credit/blame for the existence of the Chinese stock market...
#134 Feb 28 2007 at 6:31 PM Rating: Decent
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MDenham the Shady wrote:
Jophiel wrote:
I blame it all on Bush. Every last bit of it.

Hm. I dunno that I'd give Bush credit/blame for the existence of the Chinese stock market...

GIS "chinese exit strategy"
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publiusvarus wrote:
we all know liberals are well adjusted american citizens who only want what's best for society. While conservatives are evil money grubbing scum who only want to sh*t on the little man and rob the world of its resources.
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