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Meditation VS. MedicationFollow

#1 Feb 02 2007 at 3:43 PM Rating: Good
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Neuroplasticity

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refers to the changes that occur in the organization of the brain, and in particular changes that occur to the location of specific information processing functions, as a result of the effect of experience during development and as mature animals. A common and surprising consequence of brain plasticity is that the location of a given function can "move" from one location to another in the brain due to repeated learning or brain trauma.


It is a common belief that the brain is "hard-wired" from birth and further hardwired by genetics and severe trauma such as a head injury. The sections of the brain are mapped out. This controls This. This tells This what to do.

Conditions suffered by stroke victims and depression sufferers are generally treated by blanket methods of therapy and drugs in some attempt to change the condition of the patient. Physical therapy is met with some success. Drugs are given usually to mask the symptom and so on.
Basically some kind of external conditioning is rendered and it is hoped that the brain will somehow follow suit.

Researchers have finally begun to see the light. Through cognative therapy they have found has just a profound effects on mental states than drugs and that through such therapy the change was actually made in their brain and that it stays. In other words.. the mind changed the matter. Pretty much what people like Buddhists have been saying all along. They now have been getting Tibetan Buddists who are adept in various meditive techniques and have been having them meditate under thier machines.
In a nutshell, they are discovering more and more evidence that the brain's systems are not quite that hard-wired. Mediation actually does cause an actual change in neuropathways in the brain that sustains. This has been wondered about for some time but now it's starting to get some publicity it seems.

The big deal about Buddhism is that these people have an actual long-tried and long-tested practice in these things, way more than anyone within the Western psyche would have. Now finally perhaps Science can begin digesting some of these ancient wisdoms. The Dalai Lama and his peeps and a nice slew of scientists are working on it right now.

If done right this could prove to be quite revolutionary as the powers of the mind are further promoted causing people to actually think inward more than ever before.

but here's the question.

If they started teaching Buddhist meditative techniques in Elementary schools... would people in this country EVER accept that? if it is found that meditation (especially begun at a young age) could be the true catalyst for curing addiction, breaking old family habits such as abusive emotions, depression, memory, attention deficit and all of that ******** could be totally done away with by just thinking yourself out of them; then shouldn't this be one of the most important studies in school?

The main problem is... When the hell does a working class bloke have time to fúcking meditate anyway?


here's a link

http://www.nbc5.com/health/10726702/detail.html


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#2 Feb 02 2007 at 3:50 PM Rating: Good
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Christian Science FTW!

What you describe is akin to what Christian Scientists have preached for a while.

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#3 Feb 02 2007 at 5:32 PM Rating: Decent
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#4 Feb 05 2007 at 7:26 AM Rating: Good
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King Nobby wrote:
Christian Science FTW!

What you describe is akin to what Christian Scientists have preached for a while.


Perhaps you are correct, however concidering that Christian science depends upon the power of faith in Jesus Christ and depends upon following a Biblical dogma, I'd say that it has mor ein common with Falun Gong (the Chinese thing).

Although of course you are not the first to equate Buddhism with the teachings of Christ...

But Nobby, I am surprised that you of all people would chose to see this in some kind of nonsecular fasion when the power of the Mind shouldn't be restricted by the fences of a Religion.

This is something everyone can do.

Oh, and this is science finding that it actually is reality... unlike common Christian Science.

Edited, Feb 5th 2007 10:27am by Kelvyquayo
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#5 Feb 05 2007 at 8:31 AM Rating: Decent
I was under the impression (I took a few psychology classes in college, not much) that the brain was "hard-wired" only up to a certain point. Meaning, if you have a stroke or had to have, say a portion of your frontal lobe removed, other parts of the brain would "pick up the slack", so to speak, taking on the higher functions for the portion that was damaged. So, what you’re saying is, Tibetan Monks are retarded and they over come this by mediating. Groovy.

I don't really know much about this though, fascinating topic.
#6 Feb 05 2007 at 9:19 AM Rating: Good
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Attention training is a large part of it. In order for most changes to occur to the brain you must be focused and attentive to the particular aspect of the brain that you are working with.... for us in the high-strung western world to do this properly would probably take lots of deprogramming...
but in other words you cannot accidentally learn something.... as we all know,... you do not learn just from being in the same room as the teach that you actually have to pay attention. well there are lots of degrees of attention.

AS you can imagine.. it might be really really hard to teach lower functioning person how to focus their attention enough to get any real progress made.


With these monks, the scientists are putting them in the MRI tubes or something similar and instruct them to "turn On or OFf" different aspects of their brains.. involving emotions and such things... something that they are masters in..
They scan the brain for changes made and changes that sustain... Of course it's a lot more complicated than that..

in a nutshell
I'd call it the human equavilent to a computer spontaneously re-programming itself.
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#7 Feb 05 2007 at 9:38 AM Rating: Excellent
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Can I buy pot from you?
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#8 Feb 05 2007 at 10:53 AM Rating: Default
Here you go you addict, more mind over matter.

Stroke survivor forgot 2-pack-a-day habit

http://www.suntimes.com/lifestyles/health/230565,CST-NWS-smoking26.article

Quote:
January 26, 2007

WASHINGTON -- Damage to a silver dollar-sized spot deep in the brain seems to wipe out the urge to smoke, a surprising discovery that may shed important new light on addiction.

The research was inspired by a stroke survivor who claimed he simply forgot his two-pack-a-day addiction -- no cravings, no nicotine patches, not even a conscious desire to quit.

''The quitting is like a light switch that went off,'' said Dr. Antoine Bechara of the University of Southern California, who scanned the brains of 69 smokers and ex-smokers to pinpoint the region involved. ''This is very striking.''

Clearly brain damage isn't a treatment option for people struggling to kick the habit.

But the finding, reported Friday, does point scientists toward new ways to develop anti-smoking aids by targeting this little-known brain region called the insula.
#9 Feb 05 2007 at 10:56 AM Rating: Excellent
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Put Nobby down for this stroke, err surgery!
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#10 Feb 05 2007 at 11:01 AM Rating: Good
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Kelvyquayo the Irrelevant wrote:


Researchers have finally begun to see the light. Through cognative therapy they have found has just a profound effects on mental states than drugs and that through such therapy the change was actually made in their brain and that it stays. In other words.. the mind changed the matter. Pretty much what people like Buddhists have been saying all along.

In a nutshell, they are discovering more and more evidence that the brain's systems are not quite that hard-wired. Mediation actually does cause an actual change in neuropathways in the brain that sustains. This has been wondered about for some time but now it's starting to get some publicity it seems.



Most people in psychology have thought this all along--the idea is that people generally benefit from talk therapy and other changes in their environment or self-care routine. We have talked about the changes in biochemistry for people with posttraumatic stress disorder by using things such as cognitive treatment and EMDR. Don't ask why EMDR works--but it really is effective. Even Freud said that people need two things, Love and Work.

The medical model comes from a few things. One is the reality that people like quick fixes. You won't find a lot of psychiatrists or psychologists who think that you should just take meds and be cured--but that is often the expectations. I've had a hard time at times conveying to people that medication doesn't matter that much if you aren't willing to make other changes.

The second is that using medication widely has a research base that satisfies insurance companies. There is an issue with parity in mental health. Basically, therapists and other people in mental health have touted the need for other kinds of treatment but it's largely underfunded in lobbying and research--esp. compared to the large pharmaceutical companies who can lobby for this kind of compensation and provide the hard data.

I would say that you are right about the benefits of meditation. The brain is affected for good and for bad by the choices that we make but there are also people who have genetic loading and/or a history of environmental insults sufficient to justify the need for medication while (not instead of) they are working through other issues.

I always caution people not to think in either/or ways around this.


Edited, Feb 5th 2007 2:03pm by annabellaonalexander
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Turin wrote:
Seriously, what the f*ck nature?
#11 Feb 05 2007 at 11:03 AM Rating: Decent
The Glorious annabellaonalexander wrote:
Even Freud said that people need two things, Love and Work.


Proving just how full of **** Freud is.

Jobs suck.
#12 Feb 05 2007 at 12:14 PM Rating: Decent
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I foresee the day when we master this new technology and reprogram our brains at will via IR eye laser pens. No more ruffees!
#13 Feb 05 2007 at 6:17 PM Rating: Decent
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Hmm, would thst be referred to as a central lobotomy?
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we all know liberals are well adjusted american citizens who only want what's best for society. While conservatives are evil money grubbing scum who only want to sh*t on the little man and rob the world of its resources.
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