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#1 Jan 31 2007 at 3:02 PM Rating: Good
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So reassuring that the septics are watching the backs of us Brits

Quote:
'Friendly fire' Iraq video found

Video footage which is thought to show the moment US planes fired on a British convoy may be shown to the family of a soldier killed in the attack.

The tape, understood to be taken from the cockpit one of the planes that fired on British troops in March 2003, was viewed by Coroner Andrew Walker.

He is hearing the inquest into the death of Lance Corporal Matty Hull, 25, from Berkshire, who died in the attack.

A hearing on Thursday will decide whether it will be played in court.

L/Cpl Hull, Household Cavalry Regiment, died from multiple injuries inside his blazing Scimitar tank, despite efforts by colleagues to save him. He was travelling in a column of light armoured vehicles near the southern city of Basra when it was reportedly attacked by a US A-10 "tankbuster" aircraft.

Corporal Ashley Bell, who was also in the convoy, earlier told the inquest in Oxford of his shock when the planes continued to bomb the tanks in front of him.

"We started to realise this was a friendly-on-friendly and I got onto the radio," said Cpl Bell.

No response

"I asked for a 'Stop Stop Stop, check fire', at which everyone in our forces is supposed to stop firing."

But he said he got no response from air controllers and the planes attacked again.

He said: "When they came through and engaged again, I got onto the net [radio network] and then screamed a 'Stop stop stop' again.

"However, the British Forward Air Controller basically said they were rogue pilots that were working on their own."

The inquest continues.


A friend who recently served in towel-head-land tells me he spoke to a senior Marine Officer who was shown the Union Jack (the British Flag) and identified it as "some sort of insurgent gang colors?"

Oh dear lord!

Once again. Which chinless US General failed to train his or her troops so badly?!

I'd start learning the Iranian National Anthem if I were you!
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#2 Jan 31 2007 at 4:08 PM Rating: Good
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They did the same thing to some canucks in Afghanistan a couple years ago.
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#3 Jan 31 2007 at 6:31 PM Rating: Decent
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bodhisattva wrote:
They did the same thing to some canucks in Afghanistan a couple years ago.


I remember seeing that footage on the news a while ago. It was awful =/
#4 Jan 31 2007 at 6:31 PM Rating: Decent
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russelcoight wrote:
bodhisattva wrote:
They did the same thing to some canucks in Afghanistan a couple years ago.


I remember seeing that footage on the news a while ago. It was awful =/


Yeah, Canucks are such ugly bastards.
#5 Feb 06 2007 at 3:46 PM Rating: Good
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Update:

Despite the USA and the British Govt denying that video footage existed of the attack, it has now been 'acquired' by The Sun newspaper and audio clips released:



Quote:
Here are extracts from a transcript of the Sun video. It contains strong langauge.

The aircraft is an A-10 tank buster aircraft, call sign Popov36. A second jet involved has the call sign Popov35. The call signs Manila Hotel, Manila34 and Lightning34 are three US Marine Corps forward air controllers on the ground attached to British units. In the video the pilots are heard becoming upset and swearing as they realise the mistake that has been made.

Popov36: Hey, I got a four ship. Looks like we got orange panels on them though. Do we have any friendlies up in this area?

Manila hotel: I understand that was north 800 metres.

Manila hotel: Popov, understand that was north 800 metres?

Popov35: Confirm, north 800 metres.Confirm there are no friendlies this far north on the ground.

Manila hotel: That is an affirm. You are well clear of friendlies.

Popov35: Copy. I see multiple riveted vehicles. Some look like flatbed trucks and others are green vehicles. Can't quite make out the type. Look like may be Zil157s (Russian made trucks used by Iraqi army).

.....

Popov 36: OK. Right underneath you. Right now, there's a canal that runs north/south. There's a small village, and there are vehicles that are spaced evenly there.

Popov 36: They look like they have orange panels on though.

Popov35: He told me, he told me there's nobody north of here, no friendlies.

.....

Popov36: They've got something orange on top of them

Popov35: Popov for Manila 3, is Manila 34 in this area?

Manila Hotel: Say again?

Popov35: Manila hotel, is Manila 34 in this area?

Manila hotel: Negative. Understand they are well clear of that now.

Popov35: OK, copy. Like I said, multiple riveted vehicles. They look like flatbed trucks. Are those your targets?

Manila hotel: That's affirm

Popov35: OK

.....

Popov36: I want to get that first one before he gets into town then.

Popov35: Get him - get him.

.....

[Sound of gunfire]...

Lightning 34: Roger, Popov. Be advised that in the 3122 and 3222 group box you have friendly armour in the area. Yellow, small armoured tanks. Just be advised.

Popov35: Ahh Shit.

Popv35: Got a - got a smoke.

Lightning 34: Hey, Popov34, abort your mission. You got a, looks we might have a blue on blue situation.

Popov35: FUck. God, bless it.

.....

Manila 34: We are getting an initial brief that there was one killed and one wounded, over.

Popov 35: Copy. RTB (return to base)

I'm going to be sick.

.....

Popov35: Did you hear?

Popov36: Yeah, this sucks.

Popov35: We're in jail dude


.....

Popov35: They did say there were no friendlies.

Popov36:Yeah, I know that thing with the orange panels is going to ***** us. They look like orange rockets on top.


What a fUck Up!

The coroner has now been told he can use the video in closed court.

The poor bloody widow!

Edited, Feb 6th 2007 6:49pm by Nobby
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#6 Feb 06 2007 at 3:48 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
Popov35: Did you hear?

Popov36: Yeah, this sucks.

Popov35: We're in jail dude


Heartwarming, really.
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#7 Feb 06 2007 at 3:56 PM Rating: Good
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Samira wrote:
Quote:
Popov35: Did you hear?

Popov36: Yeah, this sucks.

Popov35: We're in jail dude


Heartwarming, really.
Especially when you know that the pilot was admonished and now instructs other US miltary pilots.

These things happen, on both sides, but the lack of training and weak chain of comms here shows why the US forces have had more blue on blue kills than anyone else, (even when taken as a proportion of active units or missions run).

If I'm honest, I feel for the pilot as well as the victim and his widow - he saw the Orange Panels (which clearly identify a Coalition vehicle) but the spotters fUcked up badly.

What the widow and the coroner are really pissed about is the US denial of the video's existence, and their repeated refusal to supply evidence to Inquests. (In UK an Inquest is purely to establish cause and circumstances of death, not to apportion blame or onus).

There's still anger at the USA's refusal to provide evidence at the inquest of British New Reporter Terry Lloyd (shot in the head by US troops while travelling in a clearly marked ambulance). Again, Uncle Sam denied the existence of video until a copy was leaked and showed a bunch of trigger-happy slack-jaws shooting at what was obviously an ambulance.

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#8 Feb 06 2007 at 3:57 PM Rating: Good
Popov 35 wrote:
I'm going to be sick


Without hearing the intonation of this statement, and keeping in the context of the following exchange I gather that he's worried not about the taking of life, albeit inintentional, but rather with what the implications are for him personally.

I'm going to be sick. Honestly, awful stuff Nobby, could you make with an apologetic boobie pic, or some more celebrity lesbianish moments, please?
#9 Feb 06 2007 at 5:07 PM Rating: Good
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Video online (Maybe UK Only - you tell me)
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#10 Feb 07 2007 at 8:55 AM Rating: Good
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Barkingturtle wrote:
Without hearing the intonation of this statement, and keeping in the context of the following exchange I gather that he's worried not about the taking of life, albeit inintentional, but rather with what the implications are for him personally.


Sure seems that way from the "we're in jail" statement.

Ugh, that's a sucky situation all around.
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#11 Feb 07 2007 at 9:25 AM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
L/Cpl Hull, Household Cavalry Regiment

Do they go into battle with pots and spatulas? Smiley: dubious

After watching the video, you'd think that the pilots would have given at least some pause when they noticed the orange on the trucks. Even if they were rockets, those Warthogs are more than capable of avoiding unguided missiles, and Bob forbid they confirm their target before blowing it the hell up.

What do they tell the widow, that lack of communication between Coalition forces was the cause of death, or that several large caliber anti-tank rounds were?
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#12 Feb 07 2007 at 10:26 AM Rating: Decent
Well according to the transcript, they did pause like 2 times to get confirmation from HQ and their spotters that they weren't about to shoot at friendlies. Going on visual confirmation alone isn't really enough (which is why they double checked before they opened fire), because it would be too risky to assume that the enemy wouldn't color up their vehicles to look similar to coalition forces to avoid detection.


So, the pilots had doubts, they radioed them in (twice) and were told to open fire. I honestly can't find fault with the pilots on this one. Now, whomever was in charge of keeping track of what unit was where, that person needs to be flailed.
#13 Feb 07 2007 at 11:25 AM Rating: Good
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Althrun wrote:
So, the pilots had doubts, they radioed them in (twice) and were told to open fire. I honestly can't find fault with the pilots on this one. Now, whomever was in charge of keeping track of what unit was where, that person needs to be flailed.
Agreed.

Appalling localised Intel., weak communications, acknowledged ****-poor training. I think you need to climb a way up the chain of command to find the root cause.
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"I started out with nothin' and I still got most of it left" - Seasick Steve
#14 Feb 07 2007 at 11:27 AM Rating: Good
King Nobby wrote:
Althrun wrote:
So, the pilots had doubts, they radioed them in (twice) and were told to open fire. I honestly can't find fault with the pilots on this one. Now, whomever was in charge of keeping track of what unit was where, that person needs to be flailed.
Agreed.

Appalling localised Intel., weak communications, acknowledged ****-poor training. I think you need to climb a way up the chain of command to find the root cause.
I think to save time they can just go to the white coloured house with the letters "GWB" on the mailbox.
#15 Feb 07 2007 at 11:39 AM Rating: Good
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King Nobby wrote:
Appalling localised Intel., weak communications, acknowledged ****-poor training. I think you need to climb a way up the chain of command to find the root cause.
Which is probably why the US didn't want them to see the tape. It's easy to say you care about the troops, but I suppose it's harder to actually do so when your own *** is on the line.
#16 Feb 07 2007 at 11:48 AM Rating: Good
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In other news, there was never any abuse at Guantanamo.

Quote:
A U.S. Army officer who investigated possible abuse at Guantanamo Bay after some guards allegedly bragged about beating detainees found no evidence they really mistreated the prisoners, military officials said Wednesday.

Col. Richard Bassett, the chief investigator, did not recommend disciplinary action against the Navy guards named by Marine Sgt. Heather Cerveny, who had said that during a conversation in September they described beating detainees as common practice.

Sen. John McCain of Arizona visited with potential voters at the Iowa State Fair last August as part of his effort to have a more visible presence earlier in key states as he seeks the Republican presidential nomination in 2008. (David Peterson -- AP)

In an affidavit filed to the Pentagon's inspector general, Cerveny _ a member of a detainee's legal defense team _ said a group of more than five men who identified themselves as guards had recounted hitting detainees. The conversation allegedly took place at a bar inside the base.

"The evidence did not support any of the allegations of mistreatment or harassment," the Miami-based Southern Command, which oversees Guantanamo Bay Naval Base in southeastern Cuba, said in a statement.

Investigators conducted 20 interviews with "suspects and witnesses," the Southern Command said. The statement did not say whether Bassett interviewed any detainees, including any of the alleged victims.

Bassett's findings were approved by Adm. James Stavridis, the head of the Southern Command.

The investigation began Oct. 13 and was expanded 10 days later to include a similar allegation from a civilian employee who recounted a conversation between a female guard and a male interrogator, according to the statement. Following Bassett's recommendations, Stavridis said a "letter of counseling" should be sent to the female guard who allegedly initiated a "fictitious account" of detainee abuse.

#17 Feb 07 2007 at 1:44 PM Rating: Good
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Video is on youtube.
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