Something that pisses me off.Follow

People that claim to be in the know, saying that the radical vein of Islam is upset over our foreign policies, and that is why there is this Jihad declared on the "west".

Were that true, Jihad wouldn't be declared on the "west", but it would be declared on the United States. Our commercial sector wouldn't be under attack, our political system would be.

Having seen, and fought against Muslim extremists, and heard their curses and insults, I can tell you that it's not out policies, but our cultural exports (Hollywod, media, pop culture, scantily clad women, and similar ilk). This imagery assaults them on so many levels. I didn't fully understand this when I was over in the sandbox, mostly because I was more worried about completing the mission and coming home alive.

It wasn't until I was back here, and a great friend of mine from Bangladesh explained why his parents were irate with him after a trip back home. He explained that they felt he was becoming too westernized. He was watching action movies, and listening to music that glorified the mistreatment of women, and enjoyed looking at nearly nude, and nude women. Their complaint was that he lost touch with his Muslim roots, and became nothing more than a western pig.

He sill loves his music, and naked women. I can see, and understand his parental complaints. Our society has gotten rather out of hand in some respects. We do treat women as objects, not people. We do glorify drugs, and alchol abuse. We do bash cultures that we don't understand.

It just pisses me off that people cannot recognize that this is a war of cultures, not policies. I don't see our culture changing, nor do I see theirs.

This is true, and it's also a source of great conflict between extremists and moderates in the Middle East.

From a culture standpoint, our women are not treated as equals, they are treated as objects of desire. Where I'm from, ******** women treat themselves as whores, and objects to be desired (thanks to a ****** image presented in modern pop culture), rather than cherished.

TRADITIONAL MUSLIM HOUSEHOLDS, notice that I said traditional households, pay attentnion now, are much like the common, everyday, mid 50's family, where the women are equal in the family, and take care of the homefront, while the man faces the world, and brings home the beef. In the moronic Muslim households, it's just like being in your trailer park. I'd estimate, based on personal experience overseas, that the traditional household makes up the majority of Muslim families, rather than the media version, which is the moronic Muslim households. Maybe you should see the world before you judge all Muslims as the same.

The ones that are actually worth a ****, are usually married, or getting married. Thank God I found on that's worth it, and I'm marrying her.

QFT. Flea, were we each not getting married (I think I got that right, you are, aren't you? I don't pay too much attention to these things), I'd offer you an amazing dinner.

So, how's Antartica, that's the only one that I haven't been on.

Nice... lol

Thanks Samira, that was my point. I missed that part of the post.

Edited, Jan 25th 2007 3:03pm by Metastophicleas

Is this the one?

I was refering to the moderate homes, not the radical homes, and even then, it's the older 50's culture. The problem is this: The radical homes are becoming an increasing segment of the population, because of culture clashes. Their culture is similar, family structurewise, to ours 50 years ago. Actual culture wise, older still. This is where I admire many Mulsim households, they value life as being a sacred gift, something to not be taken lightly, nor treated as a toy. They don't want their women to look like whores, nor do they want them to be stupid. Many of the households that I have visited, the women are very smart, and likely better educated than the average person in the US. Where I don't admire them, is there is no condemning of the fanatical groups that seek to crush the world under their bootheel, or convert us to Islam.

My point was that the average household takes little issue with the US, with the exception of our moralless society. The radical groups use those images to prey on the fears of the rest. They use those images to convince the kids to rise up and lash out at our way of life.

I think it's just a matter of not being able to get everything out in passing. Were we able to discuss this face to face, I think that it'd be easier, but I've been a little busy since the first posts, and after this one, I won't get to visit again until Friday night at the earliest, but more likely Saturday.

You should check out Asia, specificly Israel, and Dubai. Both are amazing places to see. I don't recomend Afghanistan, but Kuwait is nice. I sill need to vist more places in Europe, and Moscow has been on my list of places to vist for several years now.

Edited, Jan 25th 2007 4:21pm by Metastophicleas

Why can't it be both?

The problem is that the hatred of fanatical Muslims towards the West is not monolithic. They don't have a defined guide book called "This is why we hate the West" which everyone follows.

Now don't get me wrong, everything you wrote in your OP, I agree with. But it's more complicated, and mutli-faceted, than that.

French culture is very differnt from American culture, but we don't go to war over it. Flea can tell you tht traditional Peruvian culture is very different from the US one, but there is no "war" either.

So yes, the culture differences matter, but you don't go to war over it.

However, take the culture differences, add a feeling of persecution and some victimisation, mix it with local and enforced ignorance and prejudices, throw in some fire-brand preachers looking for a way to divert attention away from poverty and corruption-ridden governments, sprinkle a sense of loss of identity and tradition in a globalised world, and shake it with the remnants of colonisation, and you get a pretty explosive mix.

Now, I know that fundamentalist will not express it like that. But, even amongst them, their reason for going to "war" are different. For some, it'll be culture, for others it will be dogmatic religion, and for some it will be personal vengeance. Nothing is monolithic.

This is fascinating topic, but I'll just add one last thing:

Most people in the US have a distroted view of the rest of the world, especially the Muslim one. There are exemples in this thread, and in many others.

It's exactly the same for people in the Middle-East. They have a very distorted view of the US: They haven't been there, they never talk to Americans, all they see is MTV if they are rich enough, or what their imams tell them if not. Once again, they don't all see the US in the same way, but what they have in common is that they tend to only see the "bad" side of the US. And for them, these "bad" sides are the US.

This is why the media are both extremely guilty in all this, ours and theirs, for reinforcing these inaccurate prejudices, but why they will also have to be part of the solution. It's an extermely complex problem, and modern society doesn't like complexity.

Complexity doesn't do soundbites.