So Jesus is aliveFollow

nice. but this assumes that God is just another PART of things as opposed to All things, all emcompassing and beyond our personally assigned values of Space and Time.

Dr. Dino tells me how to answer this. OMGPwned!

It seems folly to stop dead in your tracks because you have seemingly come to an impass.
If the conclusion is reached: We can never know and you stick with it, then I agree.. the argument is no longer convienient..
But if you conclude that further info CAN be deduced by calculating the variables.. then EVEN IF your next conclusiuon is more variables it is still progress... The variables that I produced take into account the unknowableness of the nature of "god" and yet still constructs a framework which can be pondered upon.
If it is improbable that we cannot ever understand the nature of this "Prime Mover" then it IS probable that it would exist outside the scope of our currently standard physio-dimensional status.
A progressive conclusion is reached to that extent.
Now I grant that this does nothing to actually prove that this Prime Mover actually exists.. but the variable is there and so deductions can legitimately be made IMO.

and if that made no sense... I blame it on lack of caffeine..

Edited, Jan 22nd 2007 12:44pm by Kelvyquayo

well , I know at least Patrician's got my back
right , Pat? RIGHT?

Why is it the oddball groups and kooks are always the ones found and quoted?

Why is it that real Christians are never found and quoted?

Most Christians that bother to research their faith, and the creation of the world, find that the world is far, far, older that Catholicism gives credit for. Let's note that to the creator of all, 1000 years is but a day, and a day is but 1000 years (Second Peter). By Bible terms, it took more than likely, 7000 years to create the world as it was then. Still that doesn't seem a long time to me, but I'm no miracle worker, nor am I God.

It's very believeable in my mind that God created many wonders that we'll not see in our lifetimes. This is no biggie to me. I can deal with that, as there is FAR to much crap to deal with on a daily basis to worry about something that is a few million years old.

Evolution is something that I cannot believe as anything other than a THEORY, only because there are no real linking animals that have been discovered yet. One thing that is proven, is adaptation, which in my mind proves that we were created by a higher being (God), and that there is a lot of wisdom in the underlying structure of life. The fact that humans alone, have adapted to fit climates, and geographical areas so different, far apart, and can adapt to a new area with little effort or issue, is amazing. Animals have shown that same ability, look at polar bears in a zoo for example.

Just a side note, Adam and Eve were not tempted to eat a mere apple, but the forbidden fruit of knowledge of good and evil. What that fruit is/was, is still unknown.

I will admit that I am not the most knowledgable source of information for Christianity, but damn people, it's sad when I know more information than most of the *** monkeys running around spouting off scriptures as if they understand the meaning.

Stop prosthelitizing is you don't know what the hell you're talking about.

Oh, that whole part about not getting on the VIP list into Heaven if you're not a believer...yeah, that's likely true. I belive that it was in James, where it was said that "faith without works is dead", and "works without faith is dead". You can be as good of a person as you want, but that doesn't open the gate for you. You can have all the faith in the world, but that doesn't get you in, either. In case you haven't noticed, God isn't all inclusive. You actually have to believe, and follow the instructions. You have to spread the word, but you're not supposed to shove it down someones throat. That isn't being a good Christian, it's being an *******. No one likes an *******. Oddly, no one likes most Christians either...I'm guessing it's because of the ********.

On the subject of "horrible people in history", there is only one unpardonable sin, which is blasphmey. As yet, there is officially recorded one who has commited that sin, which was Lucifer, now known as Satan.

Also, I personlly trust the wiki, far more than I'd trust most of the oddball sites which "Christians" have created, most of which, want money to continue the good works. The Tithe, is supposed to be a showing of faith, not an obligation to give money to every moron claiming to be a prophet.

The only Christian sites that I trust, pull directly from the Bible and do not shorten the quotes that they use, or adjust them to suit their needs. Sites such as www.bible.com, rank highly on my list of reading when I'm in a troubled time. Psalms is great reading for anyone who is in dire need of a spirtual pick me up.

Do not follow blindly, for by following blindly, you have nothing for your faith to stand on. By questioning, and looking for answers, you can find that rock to anchor your faith to.

I'm not trying to pick a fight, and arguing on the internet IS just like running in the Special Olympics, (even if you win, so what? Is my e-peen going to be bigger than yours then? Whoo boy, let me start caring!), I'm just hoping that maybe, maybe, you guys won't lump all Christians in with ones that insist that you "MUST HEAR MY WORDS".

Most of those people fall into that whole "kook" think in my opinion. It's not for me to force you to believe, it's up to you to believe. Besides, the Catholics have their own schools in which to ***** up education, they don't need to further complicate things in public schools.


Also, I think that we should have all possible explinations for the begining of the world/universe. Allow the students to research them, and debate them in class. It will help the students learn to actually understand their arguments, and how to back them up, rather than just say: "I learned it in _____".

Edited, Jan 22nd 2007 1:40pm by Metastophicleas

It may be...wasn't there a nutjob back in the '80s who was building a spaceship to leave the planet when nuclear war broke out, or some such stupidity?

Because I like to beat up on people that think it's ok to rape little boys.


Seriously, out of all the groups that I've run into(we've got some pretty smart Christian scientists here in VA), Catholics tend to be the ones most likely to believe that the world is only 6000 years old. Most of the churches around here (I attend random churches, just because I get bored always hearing the same voice, and like to hear the word come from new teachers), tend to believe that the world is far older, and that it's likely that we'll not know the exact age in this life.

Then, most of them acknowledge that much of the mysteries of life are still out there to be learned. Maybe we're in the smarter, more open part of the bible belt, who knows? I think that it's because we have a ton of people coming here, with different ideas and theories. Virginia sees an influx of new people daily, being the home of the larges naval base in the world, and having some of the most largest, and most important shipping terminals in the country. Because of this, I'd argue that people here are more likely to be openminded, and explore different theories, and look for truth to explain those theories. Pat Robertson excluded. I don't pay too much attention to him personally, but I know that he has done some great humanitarian things around the world, other than that I usually just ignore him.

I'd like to believe that most of the churches around here teach what is actually in the Bible, also, rather than informing you of their "opinion". A good teacher uses the tools in front of them to teach you. A great teacher finds better tools to teach you with. With too many Bible colleges around here to list, I'd also like to think that we're a hub of Biblical learning, and that we have more people that want to understand the truth, and what it actually is, rather than what it's accepted to be.

Example: Many people on this planet accept the theory of evolution to be fact, without actually bothering to research it themselves. This leads to people that believe that man can hump a monkey, or vise versa, and create offspring, which is false. This also leads to the common misconception that monkies (apes in general) are the closest animal to man on the genetic level, which is also false. It's the common mouse. This is why mice are used for most medical tests now (that and their hyper metabolism).

Were people to actually research their "faith", they can argue the facts that are contained in evolution, and there are some, which is why Darwin theorised it to begin with. Problem is, there are still no linking animals yet. Even then, evolution does not disprove the existance of God, which is another common misconception. Just because God created man in His image, doesn't mean he didn't create animals to evolve. This brings other questions forth, that I don't have all the information to even begin to discuss, so I'll leave that to others. You could litteraly bog yourself down with possiblities, and lose sight of the point rather quickly, which I think I may have done, so I'm going to end this paragraph now.

Side note: The people that **** me off the most, are the Sunday Christians. They're also the ones that you're most likely to run into on the street, thumping their $50 Bible as though they know what they're talking about. They don't bother to research their faith, or have a true grasp of what their faith is.

Edited, Jan 22nd 2007 2:14pm by Metastophicleas

So is most of the information about evolution funnily enough.

Made it myself.

I won't expend a lot of effort trying to refute your own experiences and simply state that, demographically speaking, the southern and central states who are pushing for Creationism in public schools are largely Protestant (namely Bapist & Methodist).

http://video.google.com/url?vidurl=http%3A%2F%2Fvideo.google.com%2Fvideoplay%3Fdocid%3D8152208608191358213%26q%3Dpenn%2B%2526%2Bteller%2Bbible&docid=8152208608191358213&ev=v&esrc=sr1&usg=AL29H235siUr-qq2_JNsqR01MVVaTm__5A

Thank you sir, as that was the next question in my post count pharming expedition today!