So Jesus is aliveFollow

I would go a step farther and say that this and the golden rule are hardly confined to Christianity. They're damned near universal, in fact.

My point is, you can say the same about any major religion, and most minor ones. Islam: If you go by the book, you'll be a nice person. Buddhism: If you go by the book, you'll be a nice person. Judaism: If you go by the book, you'll be a nice person in spite of the lack of cheeseburgers in your life.

But that's cultural, not part of the "by the book" religion.

That's my point.

I'm more put off by the way Islam treats people who do believe than people who don't.

We had this talk once. Someone brought up the one Roman historian that passingly mentions Jesus about 100 years after his death. I also believe it was Tarv that pointed out that all the evidence points out that the manuscript was edited by a Christian Monk a couple centuries later.

There is absolutely no pure fact honest to god scientific evidence that the man ever existed.

The Bible has been shown to be heavily edited and mistranslated over its history and we lack any source copies. The oldest copies of the Bible were still written centuries after the death of Christ. Which leaves 40 years of oral story telling before it was written down in the gospel, followed by a couple centuries of editing and mistranslation before you get to the oldest copies that can be found. So as Tarv says, not all that compelling.

As for the whole Q'uran claim. Well as mentioned it was 600 years after the death of Christ. Also Mahomet grew up in a trade city (himself a trader travelling all over the middle east) that was in close contact with both Jewish cities as well as the remanants of the Eastern Roman Empire (and it's orthodox church) as well as their being churches through the Middle East. In fact it was the fighting between the Eastern Roman Empire and the Sasanians (persians) Empire which allowed for the rapid expansion of Islam in the first place. Once again we must take into account that the the Quran was transmitted to Mahomet over a period of 23 years. That for a long time it was kept as an oral tradition and was not codified and written down until the reign of Caliph Abu Bakr.

So in the end their is no historical evidence for the life of Christ. What we do know of him come from the Bible, which is in no way reliable as a historical text, or later works which are based or influenced by the bible. For all we know Christ could be an amalgam of different people that lived at the time forged into one character over time, much like Lao Tzu.

Edited, Jan 18th 2007 6:52am by bodhisattva

Edited, Jan 18th 2007 6:57am by bodhisattva

lolfake-ex-satanist

Reminds me of one of those bad Christian cartoons where someone is *gasp* pulled into the realm of Dungeons & Dragons, a "gate way to satanism!"

Dude. We play video games here. We're not satanists. And neither were you.

Furthermore, no one, NOT EVEN MOST CHRISTIANS, like people who go around spouting their religious doctrine and acting like Mr./Mrs. Holier than thou. The best way to show that you are a good Christian is through deeds, not words.

But I'll take the bait. As an English major, I have read lots of various holy books as well as literature that is considered to be satanic. Please, enlighten me about your previous practices as a satanist.

Well, there was this one time where I choked my chicken at Sunday school; does that count?

There is debate that Lao Tzu was not one person but rather the teachings of many. Over time it was attributed to one man to give it an authorative central voice rather than saying it was the collected works of a number of scholars.

Then a cult was built up around that man to account for any discrepancies, such as his living 900 years for the amount of time to cover the course of the works.

This was one of the things that convinced me of the Truth - the irrational hatred for a figure in history that did nothing but good to those around him. If He did NOT exist and was NOT who he claimed then why hate him?

There's a spiritual truth here for sure.
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you have found the truth. ill try and help you with the sentiment you get from trying to spread it.

we are all sinners. man is inherantly flawed. evil exist in every one of us. what Jesus did was show us a way to rise above ourselves. a path to a better life, a better existance, and baited it with the promise of an eternal life if we try. not if we do, mind you, but if we try. we just have to make a sincere effort. he doesnt expect us to be perfect, but he does expect us to try to rise above ourselves.

all men TRY to create God in their own immage. by that i mean, all men CREATE perfection in their own immage. if you dont look like i do, your flawed. if you dont think like i do, your flawed. if you dont believe as i believe, your flawed. it is why we have war, why we fight, why we kill each other and find ways to justify it. it is why the roman catholic church used to invade who towns and march them all into a huge bonfire...alive....to cleanse their souls.

all men are evil. catholic, muslim, jewish, all if us.

when you throw perfection at them, they fight back.

why?

because it would be addmitting God was not created in THEIR immage. that what they think is wrong, that what they believe is worng, that their color is not superrior to anothers color, they they should be bowing their head in shame for their actions as opposed to holding it high with pride...yet another sin BTW..., that they should be SERVANTS, not masters of their world.

it would be addmitting they are evil. and they can not accept that because they have created perfection in THEIR immage, not YOURS.

it is why Jesus was persecuted every day he walked this earth. it is why churches shunned him, why religious leaders hated him, why finally his own people murdered him. man refuses to face his sins. refuses to accept his life is a life of shame. refuses to look outside of himself for perfection.

refuses to believe what was shown to them in the flesh.

it is also why you get hostilty here. this small group has created perfection in THEIR own immage, and you want to rub shame in theri face, make them look past themselves. they created this world, and will not let anyone take it from them.

welcome to the hardship Jesus faced when trying to spread the word. hatred, hostility, opposition, belitteling. it is the path he walked every waking day of his life after he declared himself for how he was.

it is kind of interesting to be able to see what might have happened to him publically just by watching whathappens to new people on this board. old ones too if they dare try to tell them perfection was NOT created in THEIR immage. man has not changed alot.

i would be willing to bet that if Jesus came to us again in the flesh, he would be met with the same shamefull treatment he had the last time he tried to save us from ourselves.

its sad, but its true. even the bible says 2/3 of the people will be lost when he returns.
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realistically no-one would argue that he didn't exsist, but it is very doubtful that he was particularly important to anyone but a small sect during his lifetime and even more doubtful that the biblical stories have any basis on fact.
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the people were real, we have found evidence of that. the places were real, some still exist even today. facts. today, however, even like then, most people will not accept prefection created outside of their own immage. even self proclaimed christians will deny him.

you have "rationalized" what is true and what is fiction based on "YOUR" beliefes. like most of us, you have created perfection in your own immage. one that bolsters your ego, strokes your pride. one that keeps you from seeing the shame you live.

believe what you will. God doesnt want people forced to march at his side.

Sin, beg for forgiveness, be forgiven. Sounds great at face level, but this also means that even a man like Adolf Hitler or Andrew Jackson can go to heaven if they repent for their sins. It also means that someone like me, who has not commited genocide, but has commited a smattering of smaller sins cannot go to heaven due to my lack of belief in "God" even though I'm a fairly decent guy.
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yep. pretty much sums it up.

look at it like this. your entire life here is barely a blink of an eye compared to eternity. yet, in that blink of an eye, you will define yourself. given an existance where your world is what you make of it, without positive supreme guidence leading the way for you, your world is you.

weather your a good person, or a bad person will be defined by your actions in that blink of an eye you are in this world left totally to yourself for determining right from wrong.

God is a choice. one of the many paths YOU decide to take. Jesus came to show us a path that rises abouve ourselves. but weather we decide to take it or not is totally up to us. weather we decide to sin or not is totally up to us.

in the blink of an eye we are here.

if God lived amoung us so he could not be denied, how many more of us would follow him because we felt we HAD to follow him or else?

he wants the willing. not the forced. your blink of an eye here is your choice to follow or not follow. he doesnt want followers who would deny him given a CHOICE. this blink of an eye is your CHOICE.

you can CHOOSE to beleive in something greater than yourself. or you can CHOOSE to create perfection in YOUR own immage, just like Hitler, Stalin, and Bush is trying to do.

if you CHOOSE to ignore the path Jesus laid at your feet, you can finnish out this blink of an eye living your own perfection. it is your CHOICE.

that is what God is all about. CHOOSING. you can rise above yourself if you CHOOSE to. if you choose not to, you can finnish out this blink of an eye never looking past your own wants or desires. but this blink of an eye is all you wil ever get.

<insertcheesy80sheavymetalhandgesture>

When you said "Christian" I think you meant "Catholic", at least in this case.

Religions make baby Jesus cry.