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the Ashley treatmentFollow

#1 Jan 04 2007 at 6:45 AM Rating: Good
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/01/04/uashley104.xml
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The parents of a nine-year-old girl with the mental ability of a three-month-old baby are using hormone treatment to prevent their child from growing to adult size.


That's fúcking too cool for school.
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#2 Jan 04 2007 at 6:55 AM Rating: Good
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Hrm. I'm torn.

On the one hand, I've seen parents struggle with dependent children once they reached adult size, most memorably this one kid: he was fine until a doctor in El Salvador tried to use forceps to get him out and dinged his soft lil skull and ruined him, developmentally speaking.

The child couldn't speak, his limbs were paralyzed in this t-rex-looking clench, and he never learned to walk so he had a colostomy bag and urine bag and frequently had to be fed through a tube because he never learned to swallow properly and so everytime mom tried to feed him normally, he had pneumonia. He was born at the hospital I saw him at, and all the Interpreters knew him. When I met him, he was 14 and mom was bringing him in because she was concerned about his behavior. Well, it turns out it was puberty. She didn't recognize it, so attuned was she to thinking of this kid as a baby of sorts.

Now mom and dad were selfless as hell. I admired them. They bathed him every day, carried him in and out of his chair, gave him all his meds and hugged and sang to him. They obviously loved him, but it was painful to listen to sometimes. Dad came in behind mom's back one day and tearfully told the doctor that they were both getting old, and it hurt his back to lift his son now, but he had to because his wife was too small, and they didn't want the kid in a home, what could they do? When I think of these folks, I think that this kind of therapy could be a help, but then again, you'd never get to see your kid as an adult, and you'd be putting a pause button perhaps on all other development only for your own convenience...

Hrm.
#3 Jan 04 2007 at 7:10 AM Rating: Good
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Hrm. I'm torn.

Easily fixed. Replace the hormone with Windex, problem solved!
#4 Jan 04 2007 at 7:21 AM Rating: Excellent
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Given the circumstances, is the child being harmed in any way? Is she going to miss out on anything if her body doesn't mature in womanhood? It's not as though this is going to keep her from going to her prom or anything -- judging from the article, the girl is locked into the mental stage of a three month old. Sure it's being done as a convenience to the parents but not at a loss to the child.

I suppose there's a question of "If we do this to this girl then what's the cut off?" but, whatever the cut off is, I don't see it as being with Ashley.

On more asshole like behavior from moi...
The article wrote:
The girl has a rare brain condition which leaves her unable to walk or talk and her parents believe she will have a better quality of life if she remains small.
[...]
Her parents called her "Pillow Angel" because she stays wherever they place her, usually on a pillow.
So does a fucking brick. I don't know if that makes it an angel.
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#5 Jan 04 2007 at 7:24 AM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
So does a fucking brick. I don't know if that makes it an angel.
I guess "Lump of Kid" doesn't have the same affectionate ring to it.
#6 Jan 04 2007 at 7:29 AM Rating: Good
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I totally see a new craze of black market "Perpeutal Babies!" in like 80 years.
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#7 Jan 04 2007 at 7:32 AM Rating: Good
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Hormonally impeding a childs development for your own benefits, while being very convenient, is creepy *****.

It would be like hormonally altering dogs and cats to keep them as kittens for their entire life. You just don't get to make that call for your own convenience. No matter how incapable the recipient is of understanding what is happening to them.
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#8 Jan 04 2007 at 7:35 AM Rating: Good
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You just don't get to make that call for your own convenience.


apparently you do now!
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#9 Jan 04 2007 at 7:36 AM Rating: Excellent
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bodhisattva wrote:
Hormonally impeding a childs development for your own benefits, while being very convenient, is creepy sh*ts.

It would be like hormonally altering dogs and cats to keep them as kittens for their entire life.


Well my first comment is having a kitten a kitten forever hell yeah!! Then I realized you also said altering dogs to keep them as kittens their entire life just really threw me... can we really do that yet?!?!?
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#10 Jan 04 2007 at 7:39 AM Rating: Excellent
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bodhisattva wrote:
You just don't get to make that call for your own convenience.
I can think of several benefits to the child as well including not having to deal with the various effects of puberty and basic quality of care that the parents can give her if she isn't 5'6" and 160 lbs.

What's she missing out on? Menstral cramps and the chance to get knocked up by some molesting intern at a care facility?
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Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#11 Jan 04 2007 at 7:44 AM Rating: Good
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Kween Darqflame wrote:
bodhisattva wrote:
Hormonally impeding a childs development for your own benefits, while being very convenient, is creepy sh*ts.

It would be like hormonally altering dogs and cats to keep them as kittens for their entire life.


Well my first comment is having a kitten a kitten forever hell yeah!! Then I realized you also said altering dogs to keep them as kittens their entire life just really threw me... can we really do that yet?!?!?


We have the technology....


If they wanted a life of real convenience though they would give up on caring on their daughter who in their own words "Ashley has not shown material progress in her mental ability since she was three months of age, she is dependent on us in every way (including position change in bed), she can't hold a toy, and we're not sure she even recognises us," and sell her off to a thai brothel. They'd lose the dependant slab of flesh and make a quick buck on the side. Then she would truly have a chance to become a "Pillow Angel".

Edited, Jan 4th 2007 3:42pm by bodhisattva
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#12 Jan 04 2007 at 7:46 AM Rating: Excellent
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This may be a case where "putting her out of her misery" could come into play.
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#13 Jan 04 2007 at 7:49 AM Rating: Excellent
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I don't think three month olds are typically miserable.

Miserable for the parents, maybe.
Bhodi wrote:
If they wanted a life of real convenience though they would give up on caring on their daughter [...] and sell her off to a thai brothel.
In which case, marketing her as perpetually having the body of a nine year prepubescent white girl would be the first step to maximizing your profits.

Edited, Jan 4th 2007 7:46am by Jophiel
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#14 Jan 04 2007 at 7:51 AM Rating: Good
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Kween Darqflame wrote:
This may be a case where "putting her out of her misery" could come into play.


Why?

When you could sell her into a life of sexual servitude. I mean killing her would cost money, having to take care of her would cost money. Selling her for sex would MAKE money and afterall she wouldnt be capable of either liking or disliking a 40 year old american sex tourist having his way with her. Much like she wouldnt like or dislike being hormonally held back in a childs body for her parents convenience.
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#15 Jan 04 2007 at 11:46 AM Rating: Decent
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I listened to this story being discussed this morning on npr.

I got a bit of a kick out of the Brit who claimed that Ashley's parents lacked knowledge and support being over here in the US...har har har.

I suspect it's not the lack of knowledge or support but more a sign of our times. We use medical treatments to take care of our problems. Our athletes are faster, stronger and endure more than ever before thanks to steriods. We all can look like we're 35 well into our 50's thanks to medical procedures. We give our kids ADD drugs to make them calmer, growth hormones to make them taller. Why shouldn't three more peoples lives, presumably, be made better through medicine??

I dunno, I'm just glad I'm not in the situation. These people are gonna be severly griefed for their decision.
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#16 Jan 04 2007 at 12:02 PM Rating: Excellent
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#17 Jan 04 2007 at 3:15 PM Rating: Good
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Jacobsdeception wrote:
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Hrm. I'm torn.

Easily fixed. Replace the hormone with Windex, problem solved!


someone watched "My Big Fat Greek Wedding" recently....
#18 Jan 04 2007 at 3:20 PM Rating: Decent
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While the surgeries and the concept are disgusting and creepy, I can't say that after 9 years of watching my daughter suffer and barely live that I wouldn't consider the same for her.

This isn't like they did it in the backyard with a BBQ fork and tree bark either. This must have cost tens of thousands of dollars as well.

Torn on this one, but leaning towards the parents.
#19 Jan 04 2007 at 6:47 PM Rating: Good
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Kelvy wrote:
I totally see a new craze of black market "Perpeutal Babies!" in like 80 years.
I'm shocked. Shocked I say!
#20 Jan 04 2007 at 11:27 PM Rating: Decent
Bodhisattva wrote:
I mean killing her would cost money


Sell the meat?
#21 Jan 04 2007 at 11:54 PM Rating: Decent
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NephthysWanderer the Charming wrote:


Torn on this one, but leaning towards the parents.


God first I agree with Totem today, and now you. Pretty sure the universe is about to implode.

On one hand, I can see how keeping her smaller and more child-like would make taking care of her easier on the parents. Not only will size make things like moving her and changing her diapers and whatnot more convenient, but they also won't have to deal with issues such as menstruation.

On the other hand, while others may joke about it, keeping her looking like a child is going to make her more at-risk for pedophiles, particularly when the parents get too old to care for her and need to bring in help or put her in a care facility.

#22 Jan 05 2007 at 1:55 AM Rating: Decent
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I don't see this as that tough of a decision, whether your WITH the parents' decision, or against it. It seems pretty simple to me.

She has the mentality of a 3 month old, and, supposedly, will ALWAYS have the mentality of a 3 month old.

Her body would, naturally, mature. She'd go through puberty, which, in biological terms, is only really good for a person if he/she wants to have children.

Ashley, with the mentality of someone FAR younger than her age, would NOT be able to take care of anything, let alone her own child.

So, going through puberty serves no point in enhancing the quality of Ashley's life.

Stunting her growth ALSO allows her to always be able to play/interact with other children who have a mentality close to her "perpetual mentality" without having the body of a 24 year old, and thus being less intimidating to children, and easier to get along with.

For Ashely's sake, AND her parents' sake, keeping her small will help TREMENDOUSLY with caring for her and giving her what she needs. She can't go to school, because 3 month old children DON'T go to school, and she wouldn't be able to do anything at all if she were to go to school, besides be a bother to the teachers.

Mentally handicapped children often have different classes directed at helping them with understanding and the "special care" that they require. Ashley's special care is 24/7, as is an infant's. She needs her parents all the time, for everything.

I see no controversy here. She's lost nothing at all. She wouldn't even KNOW that her body was changing, or that she could walk, talk, tie her own shoes, etc, because her brain can't process it.

Kudos to the parents and to the technology and research that let such a procedure occur.

Slippery Slope? Yeah, maybe, but can't we tackle that when it comes, and for now agree that this was the best course of action for this child?
#23 Jan 05 2007 at 10:16 AM Rating: Decent
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I just wonder what side effects all those hormones will have on her, like cancer.
#24 Jan 05 2007 at 10:28 AM Rating: Good
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I have mixed feelings about this. One thing I will say is that I wonder if slowing down or preventing sexual maturation is also an attempt to prevent this kid from being victimized. I used to work with non-verbal Autistic adults and found out that the group by far most likely to get molested (resulting in a very high rate of STDs) are kids with mental retardation, especially if they aren't verbal. Now I think that there are people who would victimize them regardless of sexual attributes but I think that this must be part of it.

From what I recall, post-pubescent people with mental retardation are at higher risk of being molested than prepubescent people.

Edited, Jan 5th 2007 1:25pm by annabellaonalexander
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#25 Jan 05 2007 at 10:46 AM Rating: Decent
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Ambrya wrote:
NephthysWanderer the Charming wrote:


Torn on this one, but leaning towards the parents.


God first I agree with Totem today, and now you. Pretty sure the universe is about to implode.



Oh yeah baby....you like it hot don't you? Yeah, you're naughty. You're naughty!

I'm getting so hot.
#26 Jan 05 2007 at 11:38 AM Rating: Good
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NephthysWanderer the Charming wrote:
I'm getting so hot.
It's the Santa hat and fake beard.
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