They'll regret this. Imagine if Hitler or Stalin had a long prison term at the end of their lives. People would have the chance to reflect back upon them the countless really evil acts which they are responsible for. Ya, they may deny doing some of it, ya they may give flippent answers or try not to think about it (or justify it) but just their existance answers a question: yes it did happen.
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Hussein is said to be executed..Follow
Hopefully, what they'll regret someday is a national lack of dignity. Granted, the man had it coming to him, but do you have to start screaming Allah akbars and Al-Sadr is the most awesomest Muzzie priest evah? I swear, acting utterly without manners seems to be endemic to A-rab culture and treating the occasion with a even a tad bit of solemnity is beyond their ability. Arafat dies? A riot happens. Khomeini kicks the bucket? Arson, stompings, and gunfire.
What is it with these freaking savages?
Contrast our national day of mourning and the somber and respectful manner in which we put a president in the ground with the barbaric actions of the Middle East and it's Muzzie citizens. No wonder these people wipe their a$$ with their fingers when they ****. They have no concept of civilization.
Totem
Edited, Jan 2nd 2007 10:55pm by Totem
What is it with these freaking savages?
Contrast our national day of mourning and the somber and respectful manner in which we put a president in the ground with the barbaric actions of the Middle East and it's Muzzie citizens. No wonder these people wipe their a$$ with their fingers when they ****. They have no concept of civilization.
Totem
Edited, Jan 2nd 2007 10:55pm by Totem
wow Totem, y r u such a rascist to arabs, now i respect ur opinion as i respect all opinions, but y u gotta ******* on my homeland
Actually Totem, you seem to be in synergy with Saddam, for he did tell them that they lacked masculinity (for trying to ridicule him on his final moment).
In other news, I completely agree, those that the Bush administration appointed (or allowed to be appointed) in Iraq, are complete savages.
In other news, I completely agree, those that the Bush administration appointed (or allowed to be appointed) in Iraq, are complete savages.
Don't misunderstand me, gentlemen, it is not the people who I despise, but rather the culture and religion that promotes such a lack of decorum. Let's face facts here: had Iraqis and Arabs in general (with the exception of Saddam supporters, who, understandably, are not happy he was overthrown) gone along with the program Iraq would be a success story, one in which the people would prosper and flourish. It wasn't like this was a difficult conclusion to come to-- it made sense for everyone except for the Baathists to get onboard with ousting Hussein.
And that's the crux of the problem. It makes sense to encourage peace and properity, yet nearly everyone does precisely the opposite of what is necessary to make that happen. Notice that we use the term "Muslim Arabs." It is almost a given that we couple those two words together. Contrast that with the lack of that defining term when speaking of Western civilization. We don't say, "Christian France" or "Christian Norway," yet the preeminent describing word-- Islam --is one that translates to "peace." And the Middle East is and has been the diametric opposite of the very thing which defines them.
This is not to say that there aren't success stories. Kuwait, Egypt, Jordan, the UAE, and to a certain extent, Bahrain all have various degrees of genuine tolerance for dissenting opinions without going all carbomb on people. Egypt was the first to officially recognise Israel and has earned the economic rewards that accompanied that foresight. Jordan has a moderately temperate society, as does Bahrain and the UAE. So it is plain to me that barring cultural mores that encourage strife, Arabs in general have the capacity to live peaceably.
So what is the ingredient which is so combustable? I'd offer the opinion that it is Islam, a religion which pays lipservice to hospitality and kindness, yet at its core is as cruel as the geographic area in which it was born. It is at the heart of the Shiite/Sunni conflict, the Persian/Middle East friction, and the ongoing hatred of Judiasm.
Granted, not all Muslims are violent or evil. But I submit to you that by remaining silent on these issues, Muslims worldwide are complicit in the ongoing violence in the Middle East. By quietly accepting or silently supporting the status quo in the Middle East they have thrown their lot in with every suicide bomber, every sniper, and every militia member who can't see the larger picture outside his imam's neighborhood.
It doesn't have to be this way. They have the resources to live a quality life, in control of their own destiny, making a positive impact on the world around them. And even though I think the Middle East is an awful place to live, Middle Easterners could have the wherewithall to make it a garden spot. But the tribalism has to go. There's no room for that kind of small minded insulated thinking anymore. Nobody lives in seclusion like that any longer unless you are in New Guinea or the Amazon. Especially in a region that has vast stores of energy resources. Arabs have the means to become what they once were if only they put their efforts towards it-- together.
So am I hatin' on the Arabs and Muslims? Yep. And in general they deserve it for lacking the spine to put aside their differences and enter the 21st century. We aren't living in the era of the Grand Caliphs anymore. Get over it. That time has come and gone. But that doesn't mean the Middle East can't contribute to humanity's betterment. Once upon a time they were world class astronomers, traders, and mathematicians. They could be again if only they stopped lopping off people's domes, chopping off clitties, and blowing up shoppers with car bombs.
Pretty simple, really.
Totem
Edited, Jan 3rd 2007 7:36am by Totem
And that's the crux of the problem. It makes sense to encourage peace and properity, yet nearly everyone does precisely the opposite of what is necessary to make that happen. Notice that we use the term "Muslim Arabs." It is almost a given that we couple those two words together. Contrast that with the lack of that defining term when speaking of Western civilization. We don't say, "Christian France" or "Christian Norway," yet the preeminent describing word-- Islam --is one that translates to "peace." And the Middle East is and has been the diametric opposite of the very thing which defines them.
This is not to say that there aren't success stories. Kuwait, Egypt, Jordan, the UAE, and to a certain extent, Bahrain all have various degrees of genuine tolerance for dissenting opinions without going all carbomb on people. Egypt was the first to officially recognise Israel and has earned the economic rewards that accompanied that foresight. Jordan has a moderately temperate society, as does Bahrain and the UAE. So it is plain to me that barring cultural mores that encourage strife, Arabs in general have the capacity to live peaceably.
So what is the ingredient which is so combustable? I'd offer the opinion that it is Islam, a religion which pays lipservice to hospitality and kindness, yet at its core is as cruel as the geographic area in which it was born. It is at the heart of the Shiite/Sunni conflict, the Persian/Middle East friction, and the ongoing hatred of Judiasm.
Granted, not all Muslims are violent or evil. But I submit to you that by remaining silent on these issues, Muslims worldwide are complicit in the ongoing violence in the Middle East. By quietly accepting or silently supporting the status quo in the Middle East they have thrown their lot in with every suicide bomber, every sniper, and every militia member who can't see the larger picture outside his imam's neighborhood.
It doesn't have to be this way. They have the resources to live a quality life, in control of their own destiny, making a positive impact on the world around them. And even though I think the Middle East is an awful place to live, Middle Easterners could have the wherewithall to make it a garden spot. But the tribalism has to go. There's no room for that kind of small minded insulated thinking anymore. Nobody lives in seclusion like that any longer unless you are in New Guinea or the Amazon. Especially in a region that has vast stores of energy resources. Arabs have the means to become what they once were if only they put their efforts towards it-- together.
So am I hatin' on the Arabs and Muslims? Yep. And in general they deserve it for lacking the spine to put aside their differences and enter the 21st century. We aren't living in the era of the Grand Caliphs anymore. Get over it. That time has come and gone. But that doesn't mean the Middle East can't contribute to humanity's betterment. Once upon a time they were world class astronomers, traders, and mathematicians. They could be again if only they stopped lopping off people's domes, chopping off clitties, and blowing up shoppers with car bombs.
Pretty simple, really.
Totem
Edited, Jan 3rd 2007 7:36am by Totem
"In other news, I completely agree, those that the Bush administration appointed (or allowed to be appointed) in Iraq, are complete savages." --Greg
So are you saying we should have directly intervened and instituted a puppet government? As I recall, there was not one US citizen voting over there, nor were there any US politicians elected in Iraq-- unless you are telling me Paul Bremer and the follow-on administrators are savages.
I hate to inform you of this, but Malaki was elected by his own people. Moreover, the vast majority of Iraqis voted in that election. That's quite the tale you're apparently telling us here, dude. Somehow Bush fixed the election in Iraq by stuffing the ballot boxes or buying the votes of ordinary Iraqi citizens. But hey, some people think that there was an alien flying saucer in Roswell, and Kennedy's head is floating in a vat of green goo somewhere, so I suppose your opinion has as much validity as that...
Totem
So are you saying we should have directly intervened and instituted a puppet government? As I recall, there was not one US citizen voting over there, nor were there any US politicians elected in Iraq-- unless you are telling me Paul Bremer and the follow-on administrators are savages.
I hate to inform you of this, but Malaki was elected by his own people. Moreover, the vast majority of Iraqis voted in that election. That's quite the tale you're apparently telling us here, dude. Somehow Bush fixed the election in Iraq by stuffing the ballot boxes or buying the votes of ordinary Iraqi citizens. But hey, some people think that there was an alien flying saucer in Roswell, and Kennedy's head is floating in a vat of green goo somewhere, so I suppose your opinion has as much validity as that...
Totem
You wrote your last post with a gratifying -to me- passion, and an apparent good intent. I respect you for that.
I don't want this to turn into a flame war -of which I'm capable of handling, but wouldn't lead to results-. As an Arab Muslim, will you welcome my arguements, intellectually at least, or will this turn into a quoting bonanza and "garbaging" whatever the sides of the discussion say?
I don't want this to turn into a flame war -of which I'm capable of handling, but wouldn't lead to results-. As an Arab Muslim, will you welcome my arguements, intellectually at least, or will this turn into a quoting bonanza and "garbaging" whatever the sides of the discussion say?
Certainly.
We should choose one thread, however, since we seem to be responding to each other on several points (some of which are overlapping) on the Racism thread as well.
As for flames, I write to my audience. It is easier to denigrate and mock than to hold a constructive discussion, but as it seems you are educated and willing to parlay in a reasonable and respectful manner, I am more than happy to put aside my trollish ways and return the courtesy to you.
As there is evidently a time difference at play here, you'll have to allow for a substantial lag in response time. Ordinarily I'd be sleeping, but working nights this week has me up at odd hours, thus putting us on the same clock.
/tips his hat to Greg
Totem
We should choose one thread, however, since we seem to be responding to each other on several points (some of which are overlapping) on the Racism thread as well.
As for flames, I write to my audience. It is easier to denigrate and mock than to hold a constructive discussion, but as it seems you are educated and willing to parlay in a reasonable and respectful manner, I am more than happy to put aside my trollish ways and return the courtesy to you.
As there is evidently a time difference at play here, you'll have to allow for a substantial lag in response time. Ordinarily I'd be sleeping, but working nights this week has me up at odd hours, thus putting us on the same clock.
/tips his hat to Greg
Totem
This is fúcking awsome.
We needed a token Muslim around here to pick on and to set us straight.
Gregory the Watcher
/salute
We needed a token Muslim around here to pick on and to set us straight.
Gregory the Watcher
/salute
GregoryTheWatcher wrote:
Death to Amercia! Jihad! Aieeeeeee!
Fixed for accuracy.
Soon to be two more hanging's for discussion fodder!
Now that most people have finished jerking off at Sadaams lynching, I wonder how many people in the upper reaches of the war-party are breathing a bit easier (pun intended).
Now that the star witness is unable to be called to spill the beans in any future inquiries as to where all of those nasty chemicals and bugs that Sadaam used on the Kurds and Iranians came from exactly. The same ones that probably had more than a little to do with Gulf War 1 syndrome in fact.
It must be quite a relief to know that Sadaam is now unable to explain in person the role of certain US and British Government ministers and representatives in the supply of botulinum, anthrax precursors and many others during the 80's.
For example :
from the American Type Culture Collection, exported to agencies of the government of Iraq pursuant to the issueance of an export licensed by the U.S. Commerce Department:
Date : May 2, 1986
Sent To : Ministry of Higher Education (The Iraqis)
Materials Shipped: 1. Bacillus Anthracis Cohn (ATCC 10)
Batch # 08-20-82 (2 each)
Class III pathogen
2. Bacillus Subtilis (Ehrenberg) Cohn (ATCC 82)
Batch # 06-20-84 (2 each)
3. Clostridium botulinum Type A (ATCC 3502)
Batch # 07-07-81 (3 each)
Class III pathogen
4. Clostridium perfringens (Weillon and Zuber) Hauduroy, et al (ATCC 3624)
Batch # 10-85SV (2 each)
5. Bacillus subtilis (ATCC 6051)
Batch # 12-06-84 (2 each)
6. Francisella tularensis var. tularensis Olsufiev (ATCC 6223)
Batch # 05-14-79 (2 each)
Avirulent, suitable for preparations of diagnotic antigens
7. Clostridium tetani (ATCC 9441)
Batch # 03-84 (3 each)
Highly toxigenic
8. Clostridium botulinum Type E (ATCC 9564)
Batch # 03-02-79 (2 each)
Class III pathogen
9. Clostridium tetani (ATCC 10779)
Batch # 04-24-84S (3 each)
10. Clostridium perfringens (ATCC 12916)
Batch #08-14-80 (2 each)
Agglutinating type 2
11. Clostridium perfringens (ATCC 13124)
Batch #07-84SV (3 each)
Type A, alpha-toxigenic, produces lecithinase C.J. Appl.
12. Bacillus Anthracis (ATCC 14185)
Batch #01-14-80 (3 each)
G.G. Wright (Fort Detrick)
V770-NP1-R. Bovine Anthrax
Class III pathogen
13. Bacillus Anthracis (ATCC 14578)
Batch #01-06-78 (2 each)
Class III pathogen
14. Bacillus megaterium (ATCC 14581)
Batch #04-18-85 (2 each)
15. Bacillus megaterium (ATCC 14945)
Batch #06-21-81 (2 each)
16. Clostridium botulinum Type E (ATCC 17855)
Batch # 06-21-71
Class III pathogen
17. Bacillus megaterium (ATCC 19213)
Batch #3-84 (2 each)
18. Clostridium botulinum Type A (ATCC 19397)
Batch # 08-18-81 (2 each)
Class III pathogen
19. Brucella abortus Biotype 3 (ATCC 23450)
Batch # 08-02-84 (3 each)
Class III pathogen
20. Brucella abortus Biotype 9 (ATCC 23455)
Batch # 02-05-68 (3 each)
Class III pathogen
21. Brucella melitensis Biotype 1 (ATCC 23456)
Batch # 03-08-78 (2 each)
Class III pathogen
22. Brucella melitensis Biotype 3 (ATCC 23458)
Batch # 01-29-68 (2 each)
Class III pathogen
23. Clostribium botulinum Type A (ATCC 25763)
Batch # 8-83 (2 each)
Class III pathogen
24. Clostridium botulinum Type F (ATCC 35415)
Batch # 02-02-84 (2 each)
Class III pathogen
(Quoted from this document) These exported biological materials were not attenuated or weakened and were capable of reproduction.
One of many 'legal' exports from the US to Iraq dispatched a couple of years after this photo was taken.
Pretty nifty bit of housekeeping going on there IMO.
Now that the star witness is unable to be called to spill the beans in any future inquiries as to where all of those nasty chemicals and bugs that Sadaam used on the Kurds and Iranians came from exactly. The same ones that probably had more than a little to do with Gulf War 1 syndrome in fact.
It must be quite a relief to know that Sadaam is now unable to explain in person the role of certain US and British Government ministers and representatives in the supply of botulinum, anthrax precursors and many others during the 80's.
For example :
from the American Type Culture Collection, exported to agencies of the government of Iraq pursuant to the issueance of an export licensed by the U.S. Commerce Department:
Date : May 2, 1986
Sent To : Ministry of Higher Education (The Iraqis)
Materials Shipped: 1. Bacillus Anthracis Cohn (ATCC 10)
Batch # 08-20-82 (2 each)
Class III pathogen
2. Bacillus Subtilis (Ehrenberg) Cohn (ATCC 82)
Batch # 06-20-84 (2 each)
3. Clostridium botulinum Type A (ATCC 3502)
Batch # 07-07-81 (3 each)
Class III pathogen
4. Clostridium perfringens (Weillon and Zuber) Hauduroy, et al (ATCC 3624)
Batch # 10-85SV (2 each)
5. Bacillus subtilis (ATCC 6051)
Batch # 12-06-84 (2 each)
6. Francisella tularensis var. tularensis Olsufiev (ATCC 6223)
Batch # 05-14-79 (2 each)
Avirulent, suitable for preparations of diagnotic antigens
7. Clostridium tetani (ATCC 9441)
Batch # 03-84 (3 each)
Highly toxigenic
8. Clostridium botulinum Type E (ATCC 9564)
Batch # 03-02-79 (2 each)
Class III pathogen
9. Clostridium tetani (ATCC 10779)
Batch # 04-24-84S (3 each)
10. Clostridium perfringens (ATCC 12916)
Batch #08-14-80 (2 each)
Agglutinating type 2
11. Clostridium perfringens (ATCC 13124)
Batch #07-84SV (3 each)
Type A, alpha-toxigenic, produces lecithinase C.J. Appl.
12. Bacillus Anthracis (ATCC 14185)
Batch #01-14-80 (3 each)
G.G. Wright (Fort Detrick)
V770-NP1-R. Bovine Anthrax
Class III pathogen
13. Bacillus Anthracis (ATCC 14578)
Batch #01-06-78 (2 each)
Class III pathogen
14. Bacillus megaterium (ATCC 14581)
Batch #04-18-85 (2 each)
15. Bacillus megaterium (ATCC 14945)
Batch #06-21-81 (2 each)
16. Clostridium botulinum Type E (ATCC 17855)
Batch # 06-21-71
Class III pathogen
17. Bacillus megaterium (ATCC 19213)
Batch #3-84 (2 each)
18. Clostridium botulinum Type A (ATCC 19397)
Batch # 08-18-81 (2 each)
Class III pathogen
19. Brucella abortus Biotype 3 (ATCC 23450)
Batch # 08-02-84 (3 each)
Class III pathogen
20. Brucella abortus Biotype 9 (ATCC 23455)
Batch # 02-05-68 (3 each)
Class III pathogen
21. Brucella melitensis Biotype 1 (ATCC 23456)
Batch # 03-08-78 (2 each)
Class III pathogen
22. Brucella melitensis Biotype 3 (ATCC 23458)
Batch # 01-29-68 (2 each)
Class III pathogen
23. Clostribium botulinum Type A (ATCC 25763)
Batch # 8-83 (2 each)
Class III pathogen
24. Clostridium botulinum Type F (ATCC 35415)
Batch # 02-02-84 (2 each)
Class III pathogen
(Quoted from this document) These exported biological materials were not attenuated or weakened and were capable of reproduction.
One of many 'legal' exports from the US to Iraq dispatched a couple of years after this photo was taken.
Pretty nifty bit of housekeeping going on there IMO.
"If you have selfish, ignorant citizens, you're gonna get selfish, ignorant leaders". Carlin.
There is no such thing as Gulf War Syndrome despite protestations to the contrary.
Totem
Totem
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