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#27 Dec 28 2006 at 8:37 AM Rating: Excellent
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annabella wrote:


me wrote:
John Calhoun's famous rat experiment in 1962 showed that social pathology increased geometrically with population density. Included in this social pathology that increased the negative feedback to population density was homosexuality. Homosexuality increased geometrically with population density, which would not occur if the trait was purely genetic. The idea that any mammal is born homosexual would defeat the purpose of the evolved homosexuality trait which is to help slow an increase of population density. Instead all herding mammals have the potential to become homosexual as part of the innate population controls in their species. The percentage of the population that exhibits this pathology increases with population density; as it does with other negative feedbacks like sterility.




The question I would have is whether you'd consider this pathology or whether it is relatively neutral--or an adaptation-- given the fact that it serves the population to decrease reproduction.

Social pathology is really just a scientific term in this context, it is not meant to label somnething as bad. Anything different from the norm could be labeled as such, and this does not make it bad. In fact one could argue that given the world population, it is a good thing. (I am not making that arguement just giving an example) I would consider it overall an adaptation.




Edited, Dec 28th 2006 11:40am by fhrugby
#28 Dec 28 2006 at 8:38 AM Rating: Good
Vagina Dentata,
what a wonderful phrase
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I think I just responded to the term which usually is about the course of a disease but I think we're on the same page.

Edited, Dec 28th 2006 11:37am by annabellaonalexander
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#29 Dec 28 2006 at 8:50 AM Rating: Good
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This sure is an elaborate way to come out of the closet, homeslice. Don't worry, I don't think any less of you.
#30 Dec 28 2006 at 8:51 AM Rating: Decent
John Calhoun's famous rat experiment in 1962 showed that social pathology increased geometrically with population density.
--------------------------------------------------------

this study was funded by a right wing group with an agenda. his conclusions based on the experiment were designed to deliver the statement for the group that funded it. "its a choice" influenced by stress from population density or other factors.

what he completely ignored were genetic mutations in humans where men were born with partial female organs and the other way around as well. what he also ignored was the FACT that genetic mutation would also increase on a constant level with population denisty.

his study proved only that the more rats you had, the more gay rats there were liekly to be amoung them. thats all. weather the cause was genetic, or stress was not determined, just insinuated.

just another biased misinformation project funded by the far right to convince the masses.

genetic mutation is a constant. its always with us. always looking for that trait that will help us suceed. it is concievable that homosexuality is just a step towards a cockroach. a species that can reproduce with any gender. mabe.

no conclusions. no proof. just is.

deal with it. if you want to.
#31 Dec 28 2006 at 8:58 AM Rating: Decent
shadowrelm wrote:
most sinners do. im sure hitler thought as much. and one dictator even called it "the opiate of the masses".


Oh my. Where to start?

First of all, Hitler professed to be a Christian. Second, the man who said "religion is the opiate of the masses" was Karl Marx, who was never a dictator of anything. He wrote books.

shadowrelm wrote:
and yet, 90 percent of the people in this country are self proclaimed "Christians".


And at one point in our history, an equal number of Americans thought African-Americans were less than human. A majority of Spaniards thought the Inquisition was a good thing when witches and heretics were regularly being burned at the stake. A majority of people at one point thought the Earth revolved around the Sun until Copernicus came along. At one point, a majority of people thought illness was caused by "bad humors." At one point, a majority of people thought mentally ill individuals were possessed by demons.

And, in all of these hopelessly wrongheaded ideas, religion was the driving force. It was science and reason that eventually showed people the error of their ways.

Thomas Jefferson said, "The majority is always wrong."

shadowrelm wrote:
i would go into logic and reason with you, but just like trying to explain to a single person the joy children bring you, it would be pointless. you simply could not comprehend. even as intelligent as you feel you may be.


The reason you can't go into logic and reason to defend your faith is because logic and reason have nothing to do with it. Faith and reason are antithetical.

shadowrelm wrote:
90 percent. even a large chunk of the gay population. 90 percent makes it revelant.


No it doesn't. See above.

shadworelm wrote:
if your right and religion is a farce, what do i loose? nothing.
if your wrong, and it is not a farce, what do you loose?......


Apparently, you feel the need to "loose" your ignorant opinions upon the world, backed up by the fact that a lot of people are just as hopelessly deluded as you are.

As to what you have to "lose," that's a whole other story. And your argument has been well-refuted on these forums and in many other places and I will refrain from further dignifying your silliness.

shadowrelm wrote:
how is that for "reason and logic"?


I couldn't say. I didn't see any.

Edited, Dec 28th 2006 11:07am by bloodywilliam
#32 Dec 28 2006 at 9:06 AM Rating: Decent
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301 posts
bloodywilliam the Brilliant wrote:
A majority of people at one point thought the Earth revolved around the Sun


It doesn't?
#33 Dec 28 2006 at 9:07 AM Rating: Good
KriegsmaschineVondentoten wrote:
bloodywilliam the Brilliant wrote:
A majority of people at one point thought the Earth revolved around the Sun


It doesn't?


Oops.

Sun revolved around the Earth is what I meant to write, of course. I'll refrain from editing my post so your response will not cease to make sense.
#34 Dec 28 2006 at 9:11 AM Rating: Decent
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301 posts
heh... I had to read it over to myself several times to make sure I wasn't having a dyslexic moment. Then I started to worry that maybe they'd found out that it really was a geocentric universe when I wasn't looking!
#35 Dec 28 2006 at 9:12 AM Rating: Decent
KriegsmaschineVondentoten wrote:
heh... I had to read it over to myself several times to make sure I wasn't having a dyslexic moment. Then I started to worry that maybe they'd found out that it really was a geocentric universe when I wasn't looking!


I always knew Copernicus and Galileo were full of ****.
#36 Dec 28 2006 at 9:14 AM Rating: Excellent
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3,128 posts
SR wrote:
Quote:
John Calhoun's famous rat experiment in 1962 showed that social pathology increased geometrically with population density.


this study was funded by a right wing group with an agenda. his conclusions based on the experiment were designed to deliver the statement for the group that funded it. "its a choice" influenced by stress from population density or other factors.

what he completely ignored were genetic mutations in humans where men were born with partial female organs and the other way around as well. what he also ignored was the FACT that genetic mutation would also increase on a constant level with population denisty.

his study proved only that the more rats you had, the more gay rats there were liekly to be amoung them. thats all. weather the cause was genetic, or stress was not determined, just insinuated.

just another biased misinformation project funded by the far right to convince the masses.

genetic mutation is a constant. its always with us. always looking for that trait that will help us suceed. it is concievable that homosexuality is just a step towards a cockroach. a species that can reproduce with any gender. mabe.

no conclusions. no proof. just is.

deal with it. if you want to.

You are incorrect. John Calhouln's experiments in 1962 were not funded by a right wing group, but by the NIH and its Subsidiary the NIMH. The results of which were not considered anti homosexual at the time. In fact it gave support to the idea that homosexuality had a purpose and was widely attacked by the christian right at that time. The experiment which has been repeated by others with similiar results, was a study in overpopulation, not homosexuality and homosexuality was just one of many behaviors observed and quantified during the 13 month experiment.

The results showed that the percentage of homosexual rats increased significantly with population density, not just the number.

Genetic mutation is not a constant and does increase with stress and other environmental variables, and therefore increases with population density which increases stress. In fact the increase of genetic mutations under the stress of under or over population is one of the basic premises of the theory of evolution.

Edited, Dec 28th 2006 1:47pm by fhrugby
#37 Dec 28 2006 at 9:29 AM Rating: Good
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301 posts
Not to pick nits but Blade Runner is one of my favorite movies and I couldn't help but notice ...
bloodywilliam the Brilliant wrote:
Posting from attack ships off the shores of Orion...


IF you were going for the quote from Blade Runner, the actual location should be
Quote:
Posting from attack ships off the shoulder of Orion.


As in the star that constitutes the shoulder of the constellation Orion the Hunter.

Roy Batty in Blade Runner wrote:
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. Time to die.


Of course, if that's not the quote you were going for, then disregard what I just said and carry on... =)
#38REDACTED, Posted: Dec 28 2006 at 10:34 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Why am I not surprised to find an obvious connection between homosexuality and aids completely ignored.
#39 Dec 28 2006 at 10:40 AM Rating: Decent
KriegsmaschineVondentoten wrote:
Not to pick nits but Blade Runner is one of my favorite movies and I couldn't help but notice ...
bloodywilliam the Brilliant wrote:
Posting from attack ships off the shores of Orion...


IF you were going for the quote from Blade Runner, the actual location should be
Quote:
Posting from attack ships off the shoulder of Orion.


As in the star that constitutes the shoulder of the constellation Orion the Hunter.


What is this? KriegmaschineVondentoten corrects everything bloodywilliam says day?

Okay, okay. I'll CHANGE it. Thanks for shattering my image of myself as a tried and true BLADE RUNNER fanatic.

If you could only see what I've seen with your eyes.

Edited, Dec 28th 2006 12:40pm by bloodywilliam
#40 Dec 28 2006 at 10:58 AM Rating: Good
achileez wrote:
Why am I not surprised to find an obvious connection between homosexuality and aids completely ignored.

The simple reality of it is homosexuality is a deviant unnatural act. Just because a society says it's good or bad doesn't change that.

And asking someone to recall their first memories of sexual orientation is akin to asking a guy to remember the cause of his first hard on, it's ridiculous. Every time you jump into bed with someone you're MAKING A CHOICE.

Varus
Who knew that being black and living in Africa was a CHOICE to a deviant unnatural act that makes an invisible man who lives in the sky give you the death sentence know as AIDS.

Oh, and that *******, Ryan White, and his deviant unnatural transfusions. I'm glad he was smitten in a timely manner.
#41 Dec 28 2006 at 11:05 AM Rating: Decent
The Glorious Lubriderm wrote:
Why am I not surprised to find an obvious connection between homosexuality and aids completely ignored.

The simple reality of it is homosexuality is a deviant unnatural act. Just because a society says it's good or bad doesn't change that.

And asking someone to recall their first memories of sexual orientation is akin to asking a guy to remember the cause of his first hard on, it's ridiculous. Every time you jump into bed with someone you're MAKING A CHOICE.

Varus


What about that period of time when the Christians in Europe decided Christ was coming back any minute so they stopped showering and did nothing but pray, eat bread, drink water, and congregate? And then they helped spread The Black Death with all their deviant non-bathed prayer?

Good times.

Edited, Dec 28th 2006 1:04pm by bloodywilliam
#42 Dec 28 2006 at 11:24 AM Rating: Good
Imaginary Friend
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How is homosexuality unnatural?


animals get gay too.
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#43 Dec 28 2006 at 11:32 AM Rating: Decent
Skelly Poker Since 2008
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The Glorious Lubriderm wrote:
Why am I not surprised to find an obvious connection between homosexuality and aids completely ignored.

The simple reality of it is homosexuality is a deviant unnatural act. Just because a society says it's good or bad doesn't change that.

And asking someone to recall their first memories of sexual orientation is akin to asking a guy to remember the cause of his first hard on, it's ridiculous. Every time you jump into bed with someone you're MAKING A CHOICE.

Varus


Obvious connection between homosexuality and aids? Goodness gracious. Aids is a blood borne disease and can be transmitted just as readily between a man and a woman as between a man and a man or a man and a monkey.

The OP's question: I'd agree mostly with Kelvy that the relative proportions have remained more or less constant. If it's genetic, however, it would seem that over enough generations of 'accepted homosexuality' that the ****-gene would be bread out - simply because homosexuals, at least in current practices, don't make as many kids.

That would leave homosexualism being due to mutation, upbringing or perhaps some kind of teratogenic effect.

What I find even more perplexing, however, is that some people prefer vanilla over chocolate.

....
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#44 Dec 28 2006 at 11:34 AM Rating: Decent
Skelly Poker Since 2008
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Kelvy is this gonna be your coming out thread?


...
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#45 Dec 28 2006 at 12:09 PM Rating: Good
Imaginary Friend
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maybe you should persuade me into remaining hetero Smiley: grin
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#46 Dec 28 2006 at 12:12 PM Rating: Decent
I don't need any persuading, but I'm always up for some affirmation!
#47 Dec 28 2006 at 12:14 PM Rating: Decent
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Kelvyquayo the Irrelevant wrote:
maybe you should persuade me into remaining hetero Smiley: grin

Nah, women are ********

...
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I lost my post
#48 Dec 28 2006 at 12:15 PM Rating: Excellent
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12,735 posts
Kelvyquayo the Irrelevant wrote:
maybe you should persuade me into remaining hetero Smiley: grin


Considering that you aren't that bad looking, Kelv, you have to consider the following.

Most lesbians that are hawt have some of the ugliest butchy girls out there. If this carries over for gay relationships...

I fear for your safety and/or question your sanity.


Picture Eldy in drag.
#49 Dec 28 2006 at 12:16 PM Rating: Good
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g'night folks!
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#50REDACTED, Posted: Dec 28 2006 at 12:21 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Lubi,
#51 Dec 28 2006 at 1:29 PM Rating: Good
So what about us non aids carrying monogamous gay couples? Do we still get to have unnatural gay sex?
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