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If it isnt a blonde haired, blue eyed baby boy just toss itFollow

#1 Dec 21 2006 at 12:47 PM Rating: Good
I was listening All Things Considered on NPR last nigght. The topic was PGD (Pre-implant Genetic Diagnosis). This is a technique for screening an embryo for geneticly cause birth defects, but now is being used to screen for gender.

NPR wrote:
The study by Johns Hopkins University also found that 42 percent of clinics offering PGD offer it for sex selection.


Appearantly there aren't any sort of regulations on the use this sort of screening. Basicly the embryo is screened for any desired/undesired traits and those that don't meet the criteria are just disgarded. They seem to be skirting a fine ethically line with it being an embryo rather than a fetus. What are your thoughts? Does this industry need regulations as to what can and can not be screened? Is screening for a male vs female acceptable? Would any of you consider using this technique to select if you have a boy or a girl? ?
#2 Dec 21 2006 at 12:51 PM Rating: Excellent
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Alpha children are Gurus. They work much harder than we do, because they're so frightfully clever. I'm really awfuly glad I'm a Sage, because I don't work so hard. And then we are much better than the Scholars and Defaults. Sub-Defaults are stupid.
#3 Dec 21 2006 at 12:55 PM Rating: Good
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Does this industry need regulations as to what can and can not be screened?


No.


Is screening for a male vs female acceptable?


Yes, or for height, or lack of birth defects, or eye color, or finger size or whatever.


Would any of you consider using this technique to select if you have a boy or a girl? ?


Not ever. That doesn't mean other people shouldn't be able to have their designer babies, though.
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#4 Dec 21 2006 at 12:58 PM Rating: Excellent
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Gattaca anyone?
#5 Dec 21 2006 at 1:31 PM Rating: Good
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Everyone will pick boys, the boys will have no girls to play with and we'll be a nation of gay men.

Yay!
#6 Dec 21 2006 at 2:05 PM Rating: Decent
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Mistress Nadenu wrote:
Everyone will pick boys, the boys will have no girls to play with and we'll be a nation of gay men.

Yay!
Is that really a bad thing?

We will all dress fabulous and the obesity epidemic in this country (since teh ghey seem to enact their mating rituals at the gym)
#7 Dec 21 2006 at 2:09 PM Rating: Good
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BloodwolfeX wrote:
What are your thoughts? Does this industry need regulations as to what can and can not be screened? Is screening for a male vs female acceptable? Would any of you consider using this technique to select if you have a boy or a girl? ?
I don't see why not. If I were adopting, I'd get to pick boy vs. girl. I'd personally draw the line at eye color and such, and I wouldn't screen for any illnesses or anything not already covered in regular situations. I wonder though, if like Nadenu said, it would end up shifting the balance of the sexes somehow.
#8 Dec 21 2006 at 2:10 PM Rating: Good
Damn I'm glad that all my children are blonde and blue eyed then! Only one girl, out of 4 so not too shabby!
#9 Dec 21 2006 at 2:13 PM Rating: Good
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Isn't this kinda like using a cheatcode?
#10 Dec 21 2006 at 7:14 PM Rating: Decent
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My major is molecular biology and genetics.

It's only ethical as long as it's used for screening genetical defects. People should stop being sexists and be thankful for having healthy kids.

The ratio of each genders in population is balanced and any outside force to manipulate this will only cause problems if we consider some cultures which value having male offsprings over female ones.

Quote:
The study by Johns Hopkins University also found that 42 percent of clinics offering PGD offer it for sex selection.


One thing rules the world after all and it's money. Of course they'll do anything to get it. Sad.. Science shouldn't be a tool for such nonsense.
#11 Dec 21 2006 at 8:32 PM Rating: Good
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I wonder if it would counteract the suppression of natural selection we've implemented with modern science...or skew it off even further in some new direction?


#12 Dec 21 2006 at 9:05 PM Rating: Decent
Mistress Nadenu wrote:
Everyone will pick boys, the boys will have no girls to play with and we'll be a nation of gay men.

Yay!


Actually, my wife and I looked into this - to have a girl. We decided against it. Turns out, at the time we investigated, statistically it is no better then what you can do at home, for free. And it was pricey.

Now we have a baby girl. No need to think about it, as we only wanted at least one girl. We plan to have two, so before the first, the odds were 25% for no girls - which is pretty big.

#13 Dec 21 2006 at 9:28 PM Rating: Default
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Quote:
I wonder if it would counteract the suppression of natural selection we've implemented with modern science...or skew it off even further in some new direction?


I'm afraid it can only boost the supression. Not that gender issue specifically. Yes it can change the ratio of fertile females in a population and decrease the number of births etc. It also has social side effects. Don't get this as a sexist and biased statement but the males tend to be more agressive than females. That is a proven fact for almost all species. So closed populations which favor male offsprings over female ones is more open to an increase in crime etc if this procedure becomes cheap and common.

As a common approach to genetic screening, it does suppress natural selection immensely by eliminating the probability of birth defects and terminal diseases. But not more than the medical researches to current health issues. These are all needed for the civilization anyway. Humanity built that wall between itself and nature long ago.
#14 Dec 21 2006 at 9:38 PM Rating: Good
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lets find the farthest right conservative republicans there are, and they can regulate it.... I weep for the future :(
Why must ppl insist that the government have there hands in how we do any thing?
#15 Dec 21 2006 at 9:49 PM Rating: Decent
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I think science in general should be independent from any social foundation but that's a utopia anyway.

-Sir, we found an antidote against bioagent X.
-Good, know we can add X to our list to use it in warfare in the future.


-With this screening method we guarantee the elimination of birth defects and also for a small fee we are giving your baby a chance to be the best model of 2023.
#16 Dec 21 2006 at 9:50 PM Rating: Good
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lessac wrote:
I'm afraid it can only boost the supression. Not that gender issue specifically. Yes it can change the ratio of fertile females in a population and decrease the number of births etc. It also has social side effects. Don't get this as a sexist and biased statement but the males tend to be more agressive than females. That is a proven fact for almost all species. So closed populations which favor male offsprings over female ones is more open to an increase in crime etc if this procedure becomes cheap and common.


I don't know if you've been paying attention to society at large for the last decade or so, but there's been quite the little suppression of those aggressive instincts in the human male. Or, if that's too obtuse, they're all becoming complete saps.

Not everywhere, not all the time, but there is a definte shift.

That aside - where the hell do you get "aggression == crime"?? Maybe it just means that Rugby will become a world sport; and forthright, ambulance chasing lawyers become gods in our eyes.

Besides, I think we've skewed natural selection more with societal change than we ever would with science.

#17 Dec 21 2006 at 10:29 PM Rating: Default
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Quote:
I don't know if you've been paying attention to society at large for the last decade or so, but there's been quite the little suppression of those aggressive instincts in the human male.


Is that so? I don't see any decrease in number of wars statistically. But now you will ask me if agressive instincts = war.

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where the hell do you get "aggression == crime"??


I didn't say aggression is a crime, but aggression leads to crime.

Overall if you think the agression of males decreased (which I do believe in as well since the education level mostly increased and yes I do think education is everything but by education I do not mean an academic degree) that's also because of better legal systems (I don't say they're perfect, either). But please do not take my comments just for countries above some welfare level. The world is not spining around where you live.

As for rugby, I'm a gal and I played rugby for a year in high school. Now, does that make me aggressive? It's a sport.. :)

#18 Dec 21 2006 at 10:44 PM Rating: Good
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lessac wrote:
Is that so? I don't see any decrease in number of wars statistically. But now you will ask me if agressive instincts = war.


No, I will ask you if you really think those in power are representative of the populace as a whole.

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I didn't say aggression is a crime, but aggression leads to crime.


Really? Please provide documentation where it is the ONLY factor in crime surges.

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Overall if you think the agression of males decreased (which I do believe in as well since the education level mostly increased and yes I do think education is everything but by education I do not mean an academic degree)


So wait - you agree with what I say yet you're still arguing against me? WTH? I should stop now, but I like the punchline.

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that's also because of better legal systems (I don't say they're perfect, either).


Better legal systems lower the innate aggression of males?

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But please do not take my comments just for countries above some welfare level. The world is not spining around where you live.


Again, please explain how maleness is the ONLY factor in this crime surge.

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As for rugby, I'm a gal and I played rugby for a year in high school. Now, does that make me aggressive? It's a sport.. :)


Yes I'm quite impressed. Largely by the depth of your stupidity in dismissing a sport or other activites and not realizing that there's more than one outlet for aggression besides crime. Anyway, admit it - you only played for a year because you were there to pick up guys. Then you either got banged by the team or found yerself a nice little fishy love affair.

It's all experimentation in high school, it's ok. Just post pics for the "boys" here.

#19 Dec 21 2006 at 11:36 PM Rating: Good
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lessac wrote:
As a common approach to genetic screening, it does suppress natural selection immensely by eliminating the probability of birth defects and terminal diseases.

That would be imitating natural selection, not supressing it.


Supressing natural selection would be saving ill people, this seeks to eliminate them.

#20 Dec 21 2006 at 11:55 PM Rating: Decent
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No, I will ask you if you really think those in power are representative of the populace as a whole.


Not they're not but they didn't grow up on another planet either.

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Really? Please provide documentation where it is the ONLY factor in crime surges.


Celcio... Please.. Did I say that? Did I say aggression is the ONLY reason of crime?

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Better legal systems lower the innate aggression of males?


In some cases, yes. I know some cases that have been worked on where the criminal prefers wounding someone instead of killing because the former one has a milder punishment? I'm neither a criminologist nor a profiler, just stating my thoughts.

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Again, please explain how maleness is the ONLY factor in this crime surge.


I never used the word ONLY yet you're taking words out of **** again.

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Yes I'm quite impressed. Largely by the depth of your stupidity in dismissing a sport or other activites and not realizing that there's more than one outlet for aggression besides crime. Anyway, admit it - you only played for a year because you were there to pick up guys. Then you either got banged by the team or found yerself a nice little fishy love affair.

It's all experimentation in high school, it's ok. Just post pics for the "boys" here.


I tried to keep the level of discussion decent but your arrogance and stupidity proved me wrong. I never said aggression is the freaking only reason for crime. And what made you such an arrogant ******* Celcio, lack of female attention? And no thank you I never had to do anything to to catch the attention of males. Because I prefer staying away retards like you.
#21 Dec 21 2006 at 11:57 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
That would be imitating natural selection, not supressing it.


Supressing natural selection would be saving ill people, this seeks to eliminate them.


Eliminating birth defects means saving ill people, just so you know.
#22 Dec 22 2006 at 12:00 AM Rating: Good
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lessac wrote:
Quote:
That would be imitating natural selection, not supressing it.


Supressing natural selection would be saving ill people, this seeks to eliminate them.


Eliminating birth defects means saving ill people, just so you know.

No....the ones with defects are never being born.

#23 Dec 22 2006 at 12:17 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
No....the ones with defects are never being born.


Not about screening, but genetic abnormalities can be fixed before or right after insemination.
#24 Dec 22 2006 at 12:19 AM Rating: Decent
If it came to being mentally handicapped or not existing, I'd choose the latter.














[Foresees some retort of or relating to "Then why are you alive?"]


As far as choosing what my child is as far as male/female, eye color, hair color, etcetera, I'll let nature do the work there.

Do I think it should be regulated? Absolutely. Not for ethics but accuracy and it should definitely be regulated if failure causes an undesired effect; which it probably will.
#25 Dec 22 2006 at 12:23 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Why must ppl insist that the government have there hands in how we do any thing?

except for PG&E, they're absolute tyrants. (sorry guys i had to say something about this one.)
#26 Dec 22 2006 at 12:30 AM Rating: Good
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lessac wrote:
Quote:
No....the ones with defects are never being born.


Not about screening, but genetic abnormalities can be fixed before or right after insemination.

And what have we been talking about this entire thread now, hmm?


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