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#77 Nov 21 2006 at 3:26 PM Rating: Excellent
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You chicks need to go to a higher class of shopping establishment with less urine soaked into the bathroom stalls.
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#78 Nov 21 2006 at 3:32 PM Rating: Good
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I don't care how nice a public restroom is. It's still a public place where people come to do their business. I don't like going into them to do my *own* business, and I sure as hell would have never fed my baby in one.

When I was breastfeeding, we stayed home a lot. Not because I was breastfeeding, but because it's a lot of trouble taking out a baby that young.
#79 Nov 21 2006 at 3:39 PM Rating: Excellent
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Mistress Nadenu wrote:
I don't care how nice a public restroom is. It's still a public place where people come to do their business.
Of course it is. But every mention of restrooms in this thread has adjectives to ensure that we know it's a squalid, urine soaked, disease ridden hellhole.

I couldn't care less about the baby-feeding debate. I don't care if you breastfeed your rug monkeys and, if Flea wants to go somewhere else to do it, God bless and power to her. I'm just saying you guys need to shop in nicer establishments if the main turn-offs to the bathrooms are the caked-on filth and reek of old urine.
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Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#80 Nov 21 2006 at 3:51 PM Rating: Good
LOL Breast feed where you want, show as much or as little as you dare! ****, boobs are a fact of life almost half of the population has them, and the other 50% wish they had some!
I am more disgsuted by seeing the crack of some guys ***, while I am eating than a baby breast feeding! There is nothing beneficial or attractive about "plumbers butt"!

Way to go Delta, already having financial woes, now insult nursing mothers during the family travel season!
#81 Nov 21 2006 at 4:00 PM Rating: Decent
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Ambrya,

You're in Portland? I don't know how cheap it is or what part of the city you're in, but there is a baby/youngin resale/consignment store near 30th and Division. They'd always have a lot of stuff out whenever I would walk by there.

If anyone is up to it, you could also make your own nursing tank.
#82 Nov 21 2006 at 4:04 PM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
Mistress Nadenu wrote:
I don't care how nice a public restroom is. It's still a public place where people come to do their business.
Of course it is. But every mention of restrooms in this thread has adjectives to ensure that we know it's a squalid, urine soaked, disease ridden hellhole.

I couldn't care less about the baby-feeding debate. I don't care if you breastfeed your rug monkeys and, if Flea wants to go somewhere else to do it, God bless and power to her. I'm just saying you guys need to shop in nicer establishments if the main turn-offs to the bathrooms are the caked-on filth and reek of old urine.


Whether its pristine or squalid, the fact remains that no one should feel obligated, or that they have to nurse their child in an area that is specifically used for many people to relieve ones self of fecal matter and urine.

Edited, Nov 21st 2006 7:07pm by DSD
#83 Nov 21 2006 at 4:50 PM Rating: Decent
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kundalini wrote:
Ambrya,

You're in Portland? I don't know how cheap it is or what part of the city you're in, but there is a baby/youngin resale/consignment store near 30th and Division. They'd always have a lot of stuff out whenever I would walk by there.

If anyone is up to it, you could also make your own nursing tank.


Thanks. I've already been over to Back on the Rack a new consignment shop in Hillsboro, but I haven't checked out anything on the east side of town yet.

As much as I love the theory of consignment shops, I have to say, finding anything you can actually use can be tough, particularly by way of clothes. They were sorted by size, but so squished together it was almost impossible to flip through the rack and see if there was anything useful there.

#84 Nov 21 2006 at 6:26 PM Rating: Excellent
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DSD wrote:
Whether its pristine or squalid, the fact remains that no one should feel obligated, or that they have to nurse their child in an area that is specifically used for many people to relieve ones self of fecal matter and urine.
For that matter, it's also used to wash your hands and check your hair in the mirror. If I were you, I'd stay away from the fecal matter & urine portions of the room and stand by the hand-washing and hair-checking part. But unless you're rubbing fecal matter and urine on your nipples, I don't see how the environment really matters to the tyke. I've been in plenty of bathrooms that were probably more hygenic than the coach seats on an airplane.

Is the issue here the environment in regards to the child or just being upset that you have to be in a bathroom? Again, I don't personally care if you whip out your bosoms during High Mass but the idea of being in a bathroom keeps being stressed in this thread as if it's akin to being locked in a dungeon or thrown into a septic tank.
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#85 Nov 21 2006 at 6:37 PM Rating: Good
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But unless you're rubbing fecal matter and urine on your nipples

Don't be silly Joph. That only happens in Amsterdam.
#86 Nov 21 2006 at 6:54 PM Rating: Decent
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Jophiel wrote:
but the idea of being in a bathroom keeps being stressed in this thread as if it's akin to being locked in a dungeon or thrown into a septic tank.


Frankly, yes, for some women, it feels that way.

Let's face it, unless you're in a really swanky establishment (the kinda place with bathroom attendants and/or a lounge) most public restrooms are not all that pleasant to be in. You go in there, you do your business, and you get out. 9 times out of 10, a public restroom going to smell either like urine or (if you're lucky) harsh chemical cleasers. They're going to have bad flickering flourescent lights. They're not going to offer any seating other than on the toilet. The stalls (except for the handicapped stall) are going to be cramped and difficult to manuever in. It's not a place you want to be spending a lot of time in, and even if your baby doesn't actually come into contact with the toilets/counters/stalls/walls, it's going to feel unsanitary.

And yet we have people asking mothers to interrupt their activities, such as eating lunch in the company of friends and family, to go spend 20-30 minutes isolated in there because uptight, warped people have a hang-up about boobs when they're not being displayed as a turn-on. They're asked to isolate themselves as though they're doing something wrong, and they're asked to do so in a place where you normally go to perform bodily functions that are associated with filth. The implication then, is that breastfeeding is "filthy."

So, yeah, it's a bit of an oubliette and women are perfectly right in feeling resentment for being asked to go there when they're not doing anything "filthy" at all.

#87 Nov 21 2006 at 7:24 PM Rating: Good
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Ambrya wrote:
So, yeah, it's a bit of an oubliette and women are perfectly right in feeling resentment for being asked to go there when they're not doing anything "filthy" at all.
I suppose this is where we part ways. I never resent displaying my manners, and I simply take this on as consideration to whomever happens to be around me.
#88 Nov 21 2006 at 7:25 PM Rating: Excellent
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Ambrya wrote:
Let's face it, unless you're in a really swanky establishment (the kinda place with bathroom attendants and/or a lounge) most public restrooms are not all that pleasant to be in. You go in there, you do your business, and you get out. 9 times out of 10, a public restroom going to smell either like urine or (if you're lucky) harsh chemical cleasers. They're going to have bad flickering flourescent lights. They're not going to offer any seating other than on the toilet. The stalls (except for the handicapped stall) are going to be cramped and difficult to manuever in.
I'm aware of what a public bathroom looks like. I've actually been in a few. And I still don't think it's such a horror. But, meh, that's just me.
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#89 Nov 21 2006 at 7:29 PM Rating: Decent
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Atomicflea wrote:
Ambrya wrote:
So, yeah, it's a bit of an oubliette and women are perfectly right in feeling resentment for being asked to go there when they're not doing anything "filthy" at all.
I suppose this is where we part ways. I never resent displaying my manners, and I simply take this on as consideration to whomever happens to be around me.


No, where we part ways is over the notion that feeding a baby, even discreetly, is somehow impolite just because some other person might have bizarre puritanical hang-ups.

How is it that a mother is impolite for making someone around her uncomfortable (no matter how discreet she tries to be) but the other person isn't impolite for making her and her baby uncomfortable by demanding they go to a huge unconvenience just to do something they have a perfect right to do? Why is she expected to be "considerate" of them, but they're not expected to be considerate of her?




Edited, Nov 21st 2006 10:31pm by Ambrya
#90 Nov 21 2006 at 7:31 PM Rating: Good
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Ambrya wrote:
No, where we part ways is over the notion that feeding a baby, even discreetly, is somehow impolite just because some other person might have bizarre puritanical hang-ups.
If you say so. I would rather be polite and assume no one wants has to deal with my kid-issues but me, and refrain from judging why that may be. I excuse myself, and if they don't mind, they'll let me know. If they say nothing, then I've avoided an awkward situation all-around, and bully for no one having to feel bad about it.


Edited, Nov 21st 2006 9:36pm by Atomicflea
#91 Nov 21 2006 at 7:45 PM Rating: Decent
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Atomicflea wrote:
If you say so. I would rather be polite and assume no one wants has to deal with my kid-issues but me


Well, I'm not a huge fan of The Hillary or anything, but to borrow the phrase, "it takes a village."

Raising and nuturing the next generation is a societal obligation, not an individual one. We need to be helping mothers do the right thing for their children, not making is harder for them. I'm not saying we need to bend over backwards and make special exceptions--we just need to make sure we don't deny them the things they would otherwise enjoy if they didn't have a baby. ESPECIALLY if we're going to put all this pressure on them to "be a good mom" in the first place.

Wanna know what the leading cause of post-partum depression is? It's not, in fact, hormones. According to most psychologists, it's a combination of isolation and sleep-deprivation. Now, more than any other time in human history, women in western society lack the support structure of other women that once made the rearing of children a community activity. They're made to feel inadequate if they can't "tough it out" alone. And they're chastised by people with attitudes like yours if they expect even the tiniest bit of accomodation and cooperation. "Your kid isn't my problem" my foot. Making sure the next generation gets a good upbringing is EVERYONE'S problem.

#92 Nov 21 2006 at 7:45 PM Rating: Good
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Atomicflea wrote:
Ambrya wrote:
No, where we part ways is over the notion that feeding a baby, even discreetly, is somehow impolite just because some other person might have bizarre puritanical hang-ups.
If you say so. I would rather be polite and assume no one wants has to deal with my kid-issues but me, and refrain from judging why that may be. I excuse myself, and if they don't mind, they'll let me know. If they say nothing, then I've avoided an awkward situation all-around, and bully for no one having to feel bad about it.


Edited, Nov 21st 2006 9:36pm by Atomicflea


this isnt necessarily going to be the case when you are out in public with a nursing child. I highly doubt you will be at a luncheon meeting with business reps when the need to nurse is immediate. If you are with people, most likely they will be friends and family and you will have prior knowledge to how their thoughts lie. Being polite for people who are strangers in a public place for me, would be to go find a quiet corner. If thats not enough for them, when Im out of the way then tough cookies. Respect goes both ways.

And Joph, you can defend a public bathroom as a fine place to nurse a child, but the majority of mothers out there will wholeheartedly disagree with you, myself included. It doesnt sound like anything we who have been there done that can change your perspective, just as your opinion will not change any of ours. A bathroom, especially a public one, is nto a place a woman should have to go because others have a hang up on boobs. Again, respect here is give and take. One group can not expect the other to make all the sacrifices and have each side be happy. Im willing to respect others hang ups by nursing discreetly so long as no one tries to force me to feed my baby in an area I deem inappropriate or potentially unhealthy when he needs to be fed.


It is a hang up on the boobs too, there is no other reason for such a controverse discussion. If we were talking about a woman feeding her child by bottle, this conversation would have ended after the third post and everyone thinking the airplane company was nuts. But throw in the slight chance that someone may see (in honesty here less than you would at the beach) boob skin, then all hell breaks loose.

Edited, Nov 21st 2006 10:50pm by DSD
#93 Nov 21 2006 at 8:33 PM Rating: Excellent
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Raising and nuturing the next generation is a societal obligation, not an individual one.


Uh, no.
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#94 Nov 21 2006 at 8:44 PM Rating: Excellent
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DSD wrote:
And Joph, you can defend a public bathroom as a fine place to nurse a child
I'm not saying it's a "fine" place but it's not really worse than any other. Unless you have a specific argument that it's unhealthy for the child, the sole problem with it lies in your displeasure at being there. In which case it is a "fine" place to nurse a child -- it's just a place you don't like.
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#95 Nov 21 2006 at 9:04 PM Rating: Excellent
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Well there has to be some advantage to exposing the little milk fiends to the horrors and germs of the average public restroom early. I mena come on, if it doesn't kill them off outright it will probably give them some sort of massive super immune system or something right?
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#96 Nov 21 2006 at 10:12 PM Rating: Excellent
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How would it even be possible to see anything with her sitting at a window seat with her husband beside her? Have you seen how tightly packed in those seats are?

This will be a fun one for the courts and the lawyers.
#97 Nov 22 2006 at 12:23 AM Rating: Excellent
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Excuse me if I can't afford to shop at Neiman Marcus or Nordstrums just so that I can be entitled to cleaner bathrooms so that I may breastfeed in them. I guess since I chose to have kids, I gave up the right to sit in a corner and feed my child because someone can't stand to see a baby breastfeeding.

If someone were to ask you, "Do you mind if I breastfeed here?" would you just flat out tell them, "Actually, can you go do that in the bathroom, I find it disturbing."? If the answer is that you wouldn't deny them that right if they ask, why DO they have to ask? Just so that you can feel like they care enough about you when the issue at hand is feeding a person? I completely understand the courtesy argument when it comes to thinks like smoking or putting your feet on someone's couch or turning on the tv when someone is sleeping but this bathroom argument just boggles my mind.

Yeah, I wash my hands in the bathroom. But I also never touch anything in the bathroom without a paper towel after I do so.

Edited to clarify that my mother has had to ask if it's ok to watch tv while the kids are sleeping nearby, cause it sounded silly that you should ask someone who is sleeping if you can watch tv. ;)

Edited, Nov 22nd 2006 3:27am by Pikko
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#98 Nov 22 2006 at 3:36 AM Rating: Excellent
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Pikko Pots wrote:

If someone were to ask you, "Do you mind if I breastfeed here?" would you just flat out tell them, "Actually, can you go do that in the bathroom, I find it disturbing."?


I never asked, but I did feel it was polite to announce that I would be...so that they could avert their eyes before the boob came out (not that they would have seen anything anyway, it's not like I ran around topless).

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#99 Nov 22 2006 at 4:27 AM Rating: Good
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Awww man, I'm so not looking forward to having stripper tits again. Smiley: frown
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#100 Nov 22 2006 at 5:25 AM Rating: Decent
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I never asked, but I did feel it was polite to announce that I would be...so that they could avert their eyes before the boob came out


I'm tired and dyslexic and I read that as "before the Bob came out" about 19 times so henceforth on the very rare occasion I might find to refer to your mammaries, I will call them Bob and um..Chuckie. Yes, Chuckie. Chuckie is the fun loving one with a heart of gold.

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#101 Nov 22 2006 at 5:31 AM Rating: Excellent
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Pikko Pots wrote:
Excuse me if I can't afford to shop at Neiman Marcus or Nordstrums just so that I can be entitled to cleaner bathrooms so that I may breastfeed in them.
I love how every bathroom gets divided between "hole in the ground" and "high class salon" for the purposes of making a point.

Again, I don't give a wet slap where you do it. But the "OMG a bathroom!!" argument is relying on some gut reaction to an imagined hellhole. Look, if the bathroom in question is full of rats and plague, then then obvious answer is not to use it. If it's not, then it's not that big a deal. But this is a baby -- they eat dirt, for God's sake. Being held in its mother's loving arms while it suckles isn't going to harm it just because there's a toilet ten feet away.
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I gave up the right to sit in a corner
And that's the crux of it. You're upset at being put out and asked to move somewhere you find distasteful. Which is fine and all, but my original point was just that being in a public john isn't going to kill the kid.
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