Tricky one. . . (Updated)Follow

A local Judge had a tricky situation today.

He was hearing a Visa Appeal application, and the defence lawyer (a female muslim) was wearing a full face veil.

Linky



Argument one

People who wish to participate in Western Democratic society should conform to its norms. Being able to see a person's face is a vital part of communication, and something as important as a court hearing makes it doubly important.

Argument two

The woman is wearing the veil as an expression of her faith, and is entitled to do so. Could a judge legitimately require a Jewish lawyer to remove his Yarmulke, a Christian remove a crucifix, or a Sikh to remove his turban and Karra?

I'm discounting the oft-cited argument that muslim women are forced or subjugated by their husband/father to wear the veil. Most women I know who wear the veil do so from choice, and I know a few muslim husbands who would rather their wives weren't veiled, but accept their choice

Edited, Nov 13th 2006 at 4:30pm PST by Nobby

I'm about to leave for class so no time to argue but I'll point out that none of those obscure the face or your identity.

Unless you're wearing your yarmulke all wrong.

Just let her wear it.

If she was a smart lawyer, she may realize that this will hurt her client's visa appeal.

Justice isn't as blind as some may think.

Tea

YOu sure seem to know a lot about this Quaran thingy. She must be a witch! Burn her!

.....

That is without any doubt at all one of the most bizarrely pointless analogies I have ever, and I mean EVER, read.

And it's not a mask. It's a veil. It isn't a part of a costume, or a disguise.

i like mocha

Argument #2 doesn't hold water. In concert with the first argument a Muslim woman could wear the black muu-muu they wear, but forgo the veil to allow for facial expressions to be seen. Either that or walk around the court buck nekkid exposing her chopped off ****. I'd be fine with that.

Totem

What I want to know is where this place called "Stroke-on-tents"?!?

Totem

Old Danish saying: "Skik følge eller land fly."

The direct translation would be "Customs follow or land flee," which means "Do things our way or leave our country." I think the English version is "When in Rome, do as the Romans do."

I read some drama in the newspapers about a journalist who apparently made it all the way in and out of airport security, wearing a burka. At one point, during the passport check, they told her to reveal her face, but she didn't and they sent her through anyways.



Edit because it could be directly translated after all.

Edited, Nov 9th 2006 at 3:35am PST by Mazra

Therein lies the rub, Red. If a Muzzie lawyer (or barrister for Nob's sake) demands to wear the whole enchilada and the precedent has been set by allowing the veil, then the British court has little recourse but to allow that as well. Better to restrict the wearing of the veil now than to let that camel get its nose under the tent. But like I said, if she wants to show her shorn bits I'd be fine with that. However, if she expects to get any sympathy from those stuffy Englishhmen, she'd better have big tits and dress up as a naughty governness with a cane in hand ready to whip any misbehaving schoolboys. Otherwise she'd better expect to lose nearly every case because she's not assimilating into Western society.

Totem

Well, they came to our country, not the other way around. Do you know what happens if a woman from over here goes to a highly orthodox part of a Muslim country? She'll be forced to wear a burka.

But, oh, let's not hurt their feelings, although they do like to hurt ours with their burning of flags and complete disrespect for western laws and customs. They come to our countries and demand that we aknowledge their religion and laws (which are a bit too closely knit together, in my opinion) or otherwise we're being discriminative.

Well ***** them! If they don't like the way we run things, why don't they get the @#%^ out of here?

And I'm by no means a racist or anything, but if I decided to move to, say, Iraq permanently, I would take up their customs and laws as well. Not their religion, but at least their customs and laws. If I was a woman and decided to move to a highly orthodox Muslim country permanently, I would wear the burka as well, because that's their customs.

Eight out of ten times you hear about something in the local (national) news, it's in direct relation with middle-eastern immigrants. Just recently a 24-year-old man was shot to death by accident when some middle-eastern immigrants opened fire on a night club in downtime Copenhagen. A few days earlier a guy was stopped by some middle-eastern immigrants who needed some help with directions. The guy helped them out and in return they opened fire on him. Sexual assaults, assaults, murders, you name it. It's always "them" doing most of it. A few months ago a kid was beaten and thrown on the railway tracks by some middle-eastern immigrant kids. There are parts of the town I live in where people completely avoid going because they risk getting beat up by these middle-eastern immigrant gangs, consisting of 14-year-olds with guns!

Watching the news and reading the newspapers, it appears that somewhere along the line of evolution, these guys got hooked off.

What makes them act like this? They're guests in OUR country and they treat us like @#%^ing dirt, burn our flags whenever their relatives back in godknowswhatcountry decides to boycott us because a guy made some drawings. Do we boycott them when one of their guys decides to blow up a bus full of children in the name of Allah? No, we don't. Primarily because their crapass countries bring nothing to the table except trouble. Which is why they show up at our place and seek asylum.

Imagine asking a friend if you can come and spend the night at his place. No, wait, let me rephrase that. You show up at his doorstep, without any bags or anything, and you tell him to get you a room for the night. Then you complain about the dinner because you're a vegetarian. Then you complain about the drinks because you prefer water over milk. Then you complain about the roomservice because it's not fast enough. When you've been staying at your friend's house for a while, you start complaining about your friend and his manners towards you. You tell him that he's a racist and you start burning his family portraits. You spend all your money on bling bling and freshly stolen cars, but you never once decide to pay your friend for the time spent there. You try to convert your friend to your own religion, knowing full well that he won't. You also try to convert his children to fight a holy war for you because you are to @#%^ing scared to do it yourself. Finally you steal your friend's savings and leave the house.

After having spent the summer at your own place, you return to your friend's house again.

Now, that's more or less what's going on.

I'm sick and tired of hearing the bullsh*t about Muslims being discriminated. I'm afraid of even going to their countries because I risk being kidnapped and decapitated with a dull axe on live television. And they worry about us asking to remove a headdress? When I was a kid, I was told to take off my cap at school and in church. Now people can wear @#%^ing robes to school because it's against their religion to do otherwise. They completely disrespect our laws and ways of doing things, but all we can do is shrug and look the other way, because happy sappy hippie people who don't see these problems decide that we're all racists if we do something about it.

It's ridiculous.

Edited, Nov 9th 2006 at 4:25am PST by Mazra