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#27 Nov 01 2006 at 12:32 PM Rating: Decent
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Elderon the Wise wrote:
Ambrya wrote:
Nexa wrote:


****.

Nexa


Nah, I'm married (in other words, abstinent.)

Hey, maybe the Pubes are onto something here. Make everyone get married, and suddenly abstinence WILL become the norm.

Oh, nm, they want abstinence BEFORE marriage, not after. My bad.
Suck to be in your marriage then. I have a feeling all the people pushing for this crap are just as unhappy as you and look upon people like myself as free-loving hippy heathens.


Wow, looks like your sense of humor is broken. You should get that checked out. Or are you somehow incapable of recognizing when someone's playing to a stereotype?

Apparently you've also forgotten the host of other posts I've made over the last couple years praising both my husband and our sex life. There's your first clue, Sherlock.
#28 Nov 01 2006 at 12:37 PM Rating: Good
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Kelvyquayo the Irrelevant wrote:
Quote:
Don't u think I can pull you away from your gun and your video games for one night sometime soon so you can come over?
I'm gonna guess "no".
#29 Nov 01 2006 at 12:39 PM Rating: Good
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lol. actually the answer was a simple, ambiguous "yeah".
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#30 Nov 01 2006 at 12:41 PM Rating: Good
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Kelvyquayo the Irrelevant wrote:
lol. actually the answer was a simple, ambiguous "yeah".
I'll bet.
#31 Nov 01 2006 at 12:44 PM Rating: Default
Ambrya to pull the cork out of her ****** and STFU. Please don't make this thread one of your more boring, "No, you are." "Nu uh, you are!" threads. KK? Thanks.
#32 Nov 01 2006 at 12:46 PM Rating: Good
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The One and Only Katie wrote:
Ambrya to pull the cork out of her ****** and STFU. Please don't make this thread one of your more boring, "No, you are." "Nu uh, you are!" threads. KK? Thanks.


No, you shut up!
#33 Nov 01 2006 at 12:46 PM Rating: Decent
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10,755 posts
I love that we refuse to teach the only thing that works because no one is going to listen.

Abstinence isn't trademarked by religion either. Championed maybe, but not trademarked.

It's still the only answer, whether or not people want to practice or not.
#34 Nov 01 2006 at 12:47 PM Rating: Decent
Oh, no you di'nt! Don't make me go upside yo head! I can! I'm pimp like that!
#35 Nov 01 2006 at 12:51 PM Rating: Decent
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I love that we refuse to teach the only thing that works because no one is going to listen.


1. Doesn't work *because* no one will listen.

2. Abstinence will increase the likelihood of ************* and once kids figure that out it's a very slippery slope to dancing.



____________________________
Disclaimer:

To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#36 Nov 01 2006 at 12:53 PM Rating: Decent
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Smasharoo wrote:

I love that we refuse to teach the only thing that works because no one is going to listen.


1. Doesn't work *because* no one will listen.

2. Abstinence will increase the likelihood of ************* and once kids figure that out it's a very sticky slope to dancing.





It does work, regardless of who listens. Anyone who waits can attest to that.

And fixed
#37 Nov 01 2006 at 12:53 PM Rating: Excellent
Nexa
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12,065 posts
Smasharoo wrote:
Abstinence will increase the likelihood of ************* and once kids figure that out it's a very slippery slope to dancing.


Gross!

Nexa
____________________________
“It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes. But a half-wit remains a half-wit, and the emperor remains an emperor.”
― Neil Gaiman, The Sandman, Vol. 9: The Kindly Ones
#38 Nov 01 2006 at 12:54 PM Rating: Excellent
Nexa
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NephthysWanderer the Charming wrote:

And fixed


hahaha, fine! You win!

Nexa
____________________________
“It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes. But a half-wit remains a half-wit, and the emperor remains an emperor.”
― Neil Gaiman, The Sandman, Vol. 9: The Kindly Ones
#39 Nov 01 2006 at 12:55 PM Rating: Decent
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Nexa wrote:
NephthysWanderer the Charming wrote:

And fixed


hahaha, fine! You win!

Nexa


****

Neph
#40 Nov 01 2006 at 12:55 PM Rating: Excellent
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NephthysWanderer the Charming wrote:
I love that we refuse to teach the only thing that works because no one is going to listen.
I doubt anyone really "refuses to teach it". The issue is teaching it to the exclusion of anything else.
The Story wrote:
...as part of its abstinence-only programs, which include millions of dollars in federal money...
Millions of dollars to say "Keep your legs closed"? Are they giving everyone in America shiney new dime to hold between their knees?

Is it effective? Sure, when it happens. But it's not realistic (given past results) to assume that it will happen and you get a much better return on your dollar by teaching safe sex & birth control along with stressing the infailibility of practiced abstinence.
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Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#41 Nov 01 2006 at 12:58 PM Rating: Decent
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It does work, regardless of who listens. Anyone who waits can attest to that.


So does stabbing children in the face until they die. No sex then. Maybe we should teach that as an alternate method.

____________________________
Disclaimer:

To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#42 Nov 01 2006 at 1:02 PM Rating: Decent
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Smasharoo wrote:

It does work, regardless of who listens. Anyone who waits can attest to that.


So does stabbing children in the face until they die. No sex then. Maybe we should teach that as an alternate method.



So....meds huh?
#43 Nov 01 2006 at 1:04 PM Rating: Decent
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30,086 posts

So....meds huh?


/shrug. The efficacy of face stabbing would vastly outperform that of abstinence. Your argument is that abstinence is an effective method when practiced by the people who wouldn't have been having sex anyway, right? In light of that I find the face stabbing solution quite sane and well reasoned.

____________________________
Disclaimer:

To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#44 Nov 01 2006 at 1:11 PM Rating: Decent
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10,755 posts
Smasharoo wrote:

So....meds huh?


/shrug. The efficacy of face stabbing would vastly outperform that of abstinence. Your argument is that abstinence is an effective method when practiced by the people who wouldn't have been having sex anyway, right? In light of that I find the face stabbing solution quite sane and well reasoned.



Right, but those of us on Planet Earth here realize that while face stabbing would work, it is very difficult to puncture the bones of the skull and that throat stabbing would be much easier on the wrist.



Edited, Nov 1st 2006 at 1:14pm PST by NephthysWanderer
#45 Nov 01 2006 at 1:12 PM Rating: Decent
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Right, but those of us on Planter Earth here realize that while face stabbing would work, it is very difficult to puncture the bones of the skull and that throat stabbing would be much easier on the wrist.


Well, we don't want to take the easy way out clearly...

Also, not to be all atheistic moral relativist here, but while agreeing that great sex isn't the most important thing by any stretch to a lasting relationship, really shitty sex certainly makes it a lot harder. Or not, actually, but you get the point.

Haha. Two for two.





Edited, Nov 1st 2006 at 1:15pm PST by Smasharoo
____________________________
Disclaimer:

To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#46 Nov 01 2006 at 1:27 PM Rating: Good
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Ambrya wrote:
gbaji wrote:
I just thought this bit was funny.

USA Today wrote:
"They've stepped over the line of common sense," said James Wagoner, president of Advocates for Youth, a Washington, D.C.-based non-profit that supports sex education. "To be preaching abstinence when 90% of people are having sex is in essence to lose touch with reality. It's an ideological campaign. It has nothing to do with public health."


I'm just curious when exactly he thinks would be a good time to teach abstinence...


Maybe when there's a shred of evidence to prove that teaching abstinence is actually effective at *gasp* promoting abstinence.


Hah! Missing the point. I'm not a huge fan of abstinence, much less teaching abstinence only. However, I was pointing out the Begging the Question fallacy in his statement.

If we are to assume that abstinence can work, then it's reasonable to assume that the right time to teach it would be when the thing it's trying to prevent (people having sex) is at a high rate. In exactly the way that teaching about driving saftey is most important when traffic accident rates are high. I think that's a reasonable conclusion, right?

Thus, if his argument is that teaching abstinence when rates of sex are at 90% is the wrong time, then we must assume that he believes that no time is the right time to teach abstinence. As my question posited: "When exactly does he think it's the right time?". It's a rhetorical question since it's clear from context that he doesn't think it's ever right.

And if he's starting with that assumption, then his argument assumes its conclusion in its premise. If he'd simply said "Abstinence education doesn't work, so we shouldn't teach it", he'd have been perfectly ok. I was simply pointing out the ridiculousness of his attempt to make it appear as though it's lack of applicability was particularly strong under those particular conditions.


Dunno. I found the silliness of his qualification's amusing.
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#47 Nov 01 2006 at 1:29 PM Rating: Decent
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If we are to assume that abstinence can work, then it's reasonable to assume that the right time to teach it would be when the thing it's trying to prevent (people having sex) is at a high rate. In exactly the way that teaching about driving saftey is most important when traffic accident rates are high. I think that's a reasonable conclusion, right?


No, but it's a good example of another fallacy. Good work.

____________________________
Disclaimer:

To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#48 Nov 01 2006 at 1:43 PM Rating: Decent
I found this article regarding a study of viginity (abstinence) pledges.

SF Chronicle wrote:
The 14,000 survey subjects were interviewed in 1995 and re-interviewed in 1996 and 2001. They ranged in age from 12 to 18, and came from across the United States.

Rosenbaum found that 52 percent of those who said they had signed virginity pledges recanted them within a year. Additionally, 73 percent of those who told the first survey that they had taken a pledge but later had sex denied making such a promise when they were surveyed a second time
.

the same article wrote:
The adolescents also were unreliable in reporting their sexual experiences, Rosenbaum said. Almost one-third of non-virgins in the first survey who later took a virginity pledge said in the next survey that they had never had sex.


What this really says is that these kids didn't feel bound to keep their pledges.

Another article from the Washington Post.

The Washington Post wrote:
Almost 7 percent of the students who did not make a pledge were diagnosed with an STD, compared with 6.4 percent of the "inconsistent pledgers" and 4.6 percent of the "consistent pledgers." Bearman said those differences were not "statistically significant," although Robert Rector, who studies domestic policy issues at the conservative Heritage Institute, said he interpreted the data to mean that young people committed to the abstinence pledge were less likely to become infected.


and

The Washington Post wrote:
Deborah Roffman, an educator and author of "Sex and Sensibility: The Thinking Parent's Guide to Talking Sense About Sex," said youths who take virginity pledges are often undereducated about sexual health. "Kids who are engaging in oral sex or **** sex will tell you they are practicing abstinence because they haven't had 'real sex' yet," she said.


Flea wrote:
Too many kids think that a condom will protect them from anything out there, when in some cases, even skin-to-skin contact is enough to infect someone else.


That’s why we have statistics like 65% of Americans having some form or the Herpes virus and 17-22% having genital Herpes.

What they need is the religious right to get off their high-horse and promote "Abstinence Emphasized" programs that cover STDs, birth control, and responsibilities of parenthood if you do get/your girlfriend gets pregnant, but put the emphasis on abstaining being the only 100% effective way to prevent STDs and pregnancy (barring divine intervention for the 2nd coming, of course).
#49 Nov 01 2006 at 1:48 PM Rating: Good
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BloodwolfeX wrote:
but put the emphasis on abstaining being the only 100% effective way to prevent STDs
Which it's not...
#50 Nov 01 2006 at 1:50 PM Rating: Decent
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What this really says is that these kids didn't feel bound to keep their pledges.


Nah, what it really says is kids lie about having sex.

Shocking.

What this all boils down to is the very simple question of either providing all of the information possible to people and allowing them to make decisions or providing the decisions for them without even allowing for the existence of other options.

The first option is almost always more effective, the second offers moral self righteousness to the educator.
____________________________
Disclaimer:

To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#51 Nov 01 2006 at 1:50 PM Rating: Good
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6,730 posts
Atomicflea wrote:
BloodwolfeX wrote:
but put the emphasis on abstaining being the only 100% effective way to prevent STDs
Which it's not...


It is if you live in your parent's basement and never touch anyone but yourself.
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