North Korea tested a nukeFollow

For the record, the mere notion of a nuclear armed N. Korea is nothing new. North Korea has claimed to be nuclear armed for the last 18 months or so and the CIA has suspected North Korea of having nuclear weapons for well over a decade. The news here is that North Korea has successfully tested its nuclear ******* which was a step not previously taken.Source

I think it's cute how you say "we", brownie.

Course I also think you're spot on.

So, in conclusion, you have nothing.
Got it.

Actually I think it's a perfectly legitimate question, Bhodi. You can't have it both ways. It's lame to say "You fuckwits can't do anything right - Fix things." Besides, if you don't give your input in how things should be fixed... guess whose input is going to be used in the "fixing".

I think Jophiel covered that.

I thought that's what the asylum was. I was mislead :(

Aww, they just want to be loved.



Smartass diplomats.

Well, when Bush's plan here turns out to be brilliance, let me know

The analogy works well enough -- Neph was saying that unless one has the answers, one has no right to criticise. That's foolishness; noting that something doesn't work has nothing at all to do with noting how to repair it. I could come up with a bajillion examples of when someone might notice a flawed effort without being able to correct it themselves. You could probably find a bajillion differneces in each but that's why it's called an analogy and not an equivalency.

Oh I'm sure we'll all be able to tell by the huge finger of god in the sky. He's got arthritis, makes his fingers look like mushroom clouds, really.

(and I never said it was a brilliant plan)

I also, apparently, misunderstood what Neph was saying. To me it sounded less like what you said and more like someone saying "I don't like where this is going" without saying where they would rather go. You know, kind of like that annoying girl you dated where you ask her where she wants to go, she says "I don't care" and then pisses and moans the whole time.

Close! But I think there's an extra finger in that pic.

The honest answer is that there isn't a bob damned thing you can do about North Korea now that they are nuclear armed. Even when they weren't the options using force were pretty slim.

Of course republicans will try to trace this back to Clinton and not own up to the 5 years they were in power and were completely ineffectual.

Bush's pre-emptive strike doctrine + Faulty Intelligence = international nervousness.

Of course, NK fully intended to become nuke capable before Bush was ever elected, but his foreign policy and his foreign policy blunders give them (as well as Iran) all the justification they'll ever need to build nukes.

I don't think it's either that dire a situation, or that hard to find a solution. The US dealth with the Soviet threat, which was ten times more dangerous.

N.Korea has a few nukes. The US has thousands. So you can bet your bottom dollar that the day N. Korea really threatens someone with a nuke, they will receive one first. It sucks, but when you play with fire...

Second, I agree that Joph's idea or bringing N.Korea into the fold of civilised nation is a good one. But it will be hard, and will require China, S.Korea, and Japan's total comittment to the cause. Not impossible, though.

Another option, which I think the Rep would like, would be to build your super-duper Shield of Missile Protection that shoots Nukes from space, or something. After all, yu guys would've done it if it hadn't been for 9/11. So I am sure it's still on the cards somewhere in the WH.

The only reason the US should really worry about N.K. is in the distinctly improbably scenario that it would sell one of three nukes it has to some terrorist group. But NK are quite a way from being able to do that. I would worry much more about Pakistan, or some elements in the Pakistani government, doing that then NK.

So, if NK is unlikely to sell its nukes, why should the US worry? The chances of the US being hit are tiny. NK does not have the capabilities to do that yet.

Hence, the real playa in all this is China. They have nukes. They can talk to NK. The trade with NK. And, most important of all, they dont want some dumb-*** two bob puppet dictator fucking around with their economic development. So China, not the US, is the one that has the most to lose in all this. And they are the ones who should really move their asses to find a solution. You guys have enough problem in the ME as it is.

And the chances are that China will act. There is too much at stake. Whether they will act through cute diplomacy (trying to bring them into the civilised world), or hardcore diplomacy (threatening sanctions and more), remains to be seen.

But it would be naive to think China is just sitting pretty worrying about the Euro 2008 qualifiers while all this is going on.

I think you guys should be much more worried about whats happening in Afghanistan right now, than in NK.