Today in class we got in a debate about if our votes count or not during presidential elections. This has got me thinking a bit and I was wondering if people whose reasons for not voting is "it doesnt count anyways" ever thought of this...
Saying "the reason why Im not going to go vote is because my vote doesnt count anyways" is kind of a contradiction in itself. Because by not voting your opinion REALLY wont count. So how is it the solution to votes not counting is, not voting?
Unless you are a government official, there is no way you can be 100% sure that your votes are not counting. But, it is a 100% sure thing that your vote wont count if you dont ACTUALLY GO VOTE.
So, with that said, how is it people dont feel like hypocrites by not voting and having their reason be "my vote doesnt count anyway"?
To be honost, I think it just boils down to lazyness and jumping on a bandwagon.
Edited, Sep 21st 2006 at 3:33pm EDT by DarkKnightZero
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Question for those whose "votes dont count anyways"Follow
Reading that made me tired.
refer to any of Dracoid's posts
"I started out with nothin' and I still got most of it left" - Seasick Steve
That's an old debate. How it's debated really depends on your electoral system.
I hope some day we'll have proportional representation in Canada rather than our current system. It's probably the most fair and best way to get more people to vote since their vote really does matter.
I hope some day we'll have proportional representation in Canada rather than our current system. It's probably the most fair and best way to get more people to vote since their vote really does matter.
Atomicflea wrote:
Reading that made me tired.
You know what else makes me tired?
Sex. And Unisom. Sometimes wine, unless it's more than 2 glasses.
NephthysWanderer the Charming wrote:
Atomicflea wrote:
Reading that made me tired.
You know what else makes me tired?
Sex. And Unisom. Sometimes wine, unless it's more than 2 glasses.
I can't comment on the Unisom, but nearly everything makes me sleepy. I do get some top-notch sleep after sex, though. RACK that.
I can understand that to a certain extent in some states. A vote for Bush in Illinois was a wasted effort unless you just wanted to be included in the popular vote tallies. Likewise for California, Texas, Alaska, etc which were all foregone conclusions for one side or the other. I suppose your vote carries more weight in a swing state but I've never experienced that joy.
But there's still good reasons to go vote. For one, the reason why solid states are like that is because the people do go vote. Even if you're against the status quo, it won't change until enough people get off their sad "It won't matter" asses and go cast a ballot. Voting is your primary voice in a democracy (direct or otherwise). Even if you are in the minority, you still make it known that you feel a certain way when you vote.
There's also the point that there is often any number of state or local referendums on the ballot. You might not care if you're an 18 year old living in a dorm somewhere but it might matter more to you when you're actually paying property taxes and have children in school whether or not school bus route funding is increased by $1.33 million to buy a fleet of new vehicles.
But there's still good reasons to go vote. For one, the reason why solid states are like that is because the people do go vote. Even if you're against the status quo, it won't change until enough people get off their sad "It won't matter" asses and go cast a ballot. Voting is your primary voice in a democracy (direct or otherwise). Even if you are in the minority, you still make it known that you feel a certain way when you vote.
There's also the point that there is often any number of state or local referendums on the ballot. You might not care if you're an 18 year old living in a dorm somewhere but it might matter more to you when you're actually paying property taxes and have children in school whether or not school bus route funding is increased by $1.33 million to buy a fleet of new vehicles.
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
NephthysWanderer the Charming wrote:
You know what else makes me tired?
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
The winner take all practice in the electoral college makes the votes from some people not really make much of a difference. For instance someone in Texas wanting to vote for Democrats is unlikely to have any effect on which candidate gets the votes from the electoral college given the practice of disproportional representation to the minority due to the larger amount of Republicans usually.
Jophiel wrote:
NephthysWanderer the Charming wrote:
You know what else makes me tired?
True dat. The nice thing is that these pills have actually helped me want to "do" things. Like going outside. I actually dropped all MMO's because I lost the interest to sit in a chair for 6 hours at a time. Unless I am getting paid the big bucks for it.
My vote doesn't count because I do not have the right to vote.
Nor do I have the right to bare arms (must be covered at all times) or the right to not post useless shit.
Nor do I have the right to bare arms (must be covered at all times) or the right to not post useless shit.
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DarkKnightZero
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My vote really doesn't count.
Two reasons my vote doesn't count.
1. GW Bush
2. Appathy
1. GW Bush
2. Appathy
Jophiel wrote:
I can understand that to a certain extent in some states. A vote for Bush in Illinois was a wasted effort unless you just wanted to be included in the popular vote tallies. Likewise for California, Texas, Alaska, etc which were all foregone conclusions for one side or the other. I suppose your vote carries more weight in a swing state but I've never experienced that joy.
I've done both! I voted in the 2000 election while living in Florida, and I voted in the 2004 election while in Illinois. Certainly one was far more fulfilling than the other.
It may not be a total waste voting against the foregone conclusion, though. It's worth knowing how close (or how far away) the party was within a state as well as in the nationwide popular vote. It's also useful in looking at trends across elections. Your party may take notice if they see that an 80-20 split in 1988 has changed to a 60-40 split in 2004. Plus, it's not perceived to be as much of a "mandate" when the split is a little closer. For these reasons I think it's still worth it to "get out and vote" even if your candidate is highly unlikely to win.
Still, I agree that states like California and Texas are probably never going to change no matter what.
Nizdaar wrote:
That's an old debate. How it's debated really depends on your electoral system.
I hope some day we'll have proportional representation in Canada rather than our current system. It's probably the most fair and best way to get more people to vote since their vote really does matter.
I hope some day we'll have proportional representation in Canada rather than our current system. It's probably the most fair and best way to get more people to vote since their vote really does matter.
Are you talking about the fact that the only votes that count are from Southern Ontario & Quebec because of the population? Or is there another problem with our system?
10k before the site's inevitable death or bust
The World Is Not A Cold Dead Place.
The World Is Not A Cold Dead Place.
Alan Watts wrote:
I am omnipotent insofar as I am the Universe, but I am not an omnipotent in the role of Alan Watts, only cunning
Eske wrote:
I've always read Driftwood as the straight man in varus' double act. It helps if you read all of his posts in the voice of Droopy Dog.
Driftwood the Eccentric wrote:
Or is there another problem with our system?
People say "my vote doesn't count" because it, on an individual basis, doesn't. Unless your state has 2,500,000 votes against 2,499,999, then you can't say that your vote made a difference.
Edit: number mistake =/
Edited, Sep 25th 2006 at 3:40pm EDT by Matjlav
Edit: number mistake =/
Edited, Sep 25th 2006 at 3:40pm EDT by Matjlav
Before the 2004 elections, I actually had this discussion with my best friend. She resides in Indiana, which hasn't gone blue since God was a boy. I was rather shocked to hear that she (going on 30 years old) had never voted, because she figured "why bother."
Long story short, I browbeat her into voting for the first time in the 2004 elections. Even if it didn't actually make a difference in the outcome, it was the moral victory that mattered.
Long story short, I browbeat her into voting for the first time in the 2004 elections. Even if it didn't actually make a difference in the outcome, it was the moral victory that mattered.
Matjlav wrote:
People say "my vote doesn't count" because it, on an individual basis, doesn't.
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
Quote:
Quote:
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Collectively, it does. And without individual effort there's no collection.
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Quoted multiple times for multiple truth!
Matjlav wrote:
People say "my vote doesn't count" because it, on an individual basis, doesn't. Unless your state has 2,500,000 votes against 249,999,999, then you can't say that your vote made a difference.
Princess PsiChi wrote:
Nor do I have the right to bare arms (must be covered at all times)
In a swing state? Your vote definitly counts. In Texas Illinois or California? nort really.
Quote:
In a swing state? Your vote definitly counts. In Texas Illinois or California? nort really.
Unless you vote with the majority. It makes it that much closer to a blowout!
:)
Professor CrescentFresh wrote:
Princess PsiChi wrote:
Nor do I have the right to bare arms (must be covered at all times)
Lord Darkuwa wrote:
In a swing state? Your vote definitly counts.
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