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Pope going to give Intelligent Design a try?Follow

#1 Aug 28 2006 at 2:42 PM Rating: Decent
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The Gaurdian wrote:
Pope prepares to embrace theory of intelligent design

John Hooper in Rome
Monday August 28, 2006


Philosophers, scientists and other intellectuals close to Pope Benedict will gather at his summer palace outside Rome this week for intensive discussions that could herald a fundamental shift in the Vatican's view of evolution.

There have been growing signs the Pope is considering aligning his church more closely with the theory of "intelligent design" taught in some US states. Advocates of the theory argue that some features of the universe and nature are so complex that they must have been designed by a higher intelligence. Critics say it is a disguise for creationism.

A prominent anti-evolutionist and Roman Catholic scientist, Dominique Tassot, told the US National Catholic Reporter that this week's meeting was "to give a broader extension to the debate. Even if [the Pope] knows where he wants to go, and I believe he does, it will take time. Most Catholic intellectuals today are convinced that evolution is obviously true because most scientists say so." In 1996, in what was seen as a capitulation to scientific orthodoxy, John Paul II said Darwin's theories were "more than a hypothesis".

Last week, at a conference in Rimini, Cardinal Christoph Schönborn of Austria revealed that evolution and creation had been chosen as the subjects for this year's meeting of the Pope's Schülerkreis - a group consisting mainly of his former doctoral students that has been gathering annually since the late 1970s. Apart from Cardinal Schönborn, participants at the closed-door meeting will include the president of the Austrian Academy of Sciences, Peter Schuster; the conservative ethical philosopher Robert Spaemann; and Paul Elbrich, professor of philosophy at Munich University.

Last December, a US court sparked controversy when it ruled that intelligent design should not be taught alongside evolution theory. Cardinal Schönborn said: "The debate of recent months has undoubtedly motivated the Holy Father's choice." But he added that in the 1960s the then Joseph Ratzinger had "underlined emphatically the need to return to the topic of creation".

The Pope also raised the issue in the inaugural sermon of his pontificate, saying: "We are not the accidental product, without meaning, of evolution."

A few months later, Cardinal Schönborn, who is regarded as being close to Benedict, wrote an article for the New York Times backing moves to teach ID. He was attacked by Father George Coyne, director of the Vatican Observatory. On August 19, Fr Coyne was replaced without explanation. Vatican sources said the Pope's former astronomer, who has cancer, had asked to be replaced.


I love how science continually redefines sacred Christian doctrine.
#2 Aug 28 2006 at 2:44 PM Rating: Good
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/sigh
#3 Aug 28 2006 at 3:06 PM Rating: Decent
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Intelligent Design is neither.
#4 Aug 28 2006 at 3:17 PM Rating: Excellent
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I'm not sure where to start, so I'm not going to bother.

It's like arguing which came first, the chicken or the egg? You can't really prove or disprove either way which came first.
#5 Aug 28 2006 at 3:18 PM Rating: Decent
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Nizdaar wrote:

It's like arguing which came first, the chicken or the egg? You can't really prove or disprove either way which came first.


My guess would be the chicken, cause I have yet to find a g-spot on an egg.
#6 Aug 28 2006 at 3:18 PM Rating: Excellent
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Jawbox wrote:
I love how science continually redefines sacred Christian doctrine.
I don't believe I've ever run across a Catholic who was a strict seven-day Creationist. Not to say that none exist, but literal Creationists are generally of some Protestant flavor.

Get someone to redefine their doctrine and we're in business.
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#7 Aug 28 2006 at 3:19 PM Rating: Decent
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I hope this is a /sigh story actually. Alternatively, if the Pope officially espouses the ID view, we may very well be dealing with a lot of crap from emboldened Catholics in our public school systems.
#8 Aug 28 2006 at 3:23 PM Rating: Excellent
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If it ain't the Jews, it's those damned Papists!
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Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#9 Aug 28 2006 at 3:24 PM Rating: Excellent
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Nizdaar wrote:
I'm not sure where to start, so I'm not going to bother.

It's like arguing which came first, the chicken or the egg? You can't really prove or disprove either way which came first.


Proto-chicken!
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#10 Aug 28 2006 at 3:28 PM Rating: Good
Once I saw a silverfish swimming around in a toilet at a public restroom. It got me thinking about what other kinds of critters might be living in there. So I decided against using the facilities and crapped in the sink instead. I should have had the interpretor translate the sign outside the restaurant. Maybe I could have avoided this whole mess.
#11 Aug 28 2006 at 3:48 PM Rating: Excellent
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Jawbox wrote:
I hope this is a /sigh story actually. Alternatively, if the Pope officially espouses the ID view, we may very well be dealing with a lot of crap from emboldened Catholics in our public school systems.


So basically status quo?
#12 Aug 28 2006 at 3:52 PM Rating: Decent
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Nizdaar wrote:
Jawbox wrote:
I hope this is a /sigh story actually. Alternatively, if the Pope officially espouses the ID view, we may very well be dealing with a lot of crap from emboldened Catholics in our public school systems.


So basically status quo?

No, I would say the reversal of a trend.
#13 Aug 28 2006 at 3:55 PM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
Jawbox wrote:
I love how science continually redefines sacred Christian doctrine.
I don't believe I've ever run across a Catholic who was a strict seven-day Creationist.
Same here. I think we all just like our pretty churches.
#14 Aug 28 2006 at 4:21 PM Rating: Good
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I'm not sure where to start, so I'm not going to bother.

It's like arguing which came first, the chicken or the egg? You can't really prove or disprove either way which came first.


Actually it's exactly like arguing which came first the chicken or the egg, cause in Evolution its the Egg through adaptation from a pre chicken species, and in Creationism it's the Chicken when god said "alakhazam!" and then there were had chickens.

hehe this sounds like it would make good dialogue in "My Name is Earl"

Edited, Aug 28th 2006 at 5:31pm EDT by fhrugby
#15 Aug 28 2006 at 6:32 PM Rating: Good
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Pope John Paul II said in 1996 that the theory of evolution was mostly compatible with Catholicism. And Pope Pius XII said basically the same thing 50 years before that.

JPII wrote:
"In his encyclical Humani Generis (1950), my predecessor Pius XII has already affirmed that there is no conflict between evolution and the doctrine of the faith regarding man and his vocation, provided that we do not lose sight of certain fixed points....Today, more than a half-century after the appearance of that encyclical, some new findings lead us toward the recognition of evolution as more than an hypothesis. In fact it is remarkable that this theory has had progressively greater influence on the spirit of researchers, following a series of discoveries in different scholarly disciplines. The convergence in the results of these independent studies -- which was neither planned nor sought -- constitutes in itself a significant argument in favor of the theory."


The pope's caveat was that you can't use evolution to explain the human soul.




Edited, Aug 28th 2006 at 7:32pm EDT by trickybeck
#16 Aug 28 2006 at 9:50 PM Rating: Decent
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I'm just curious what the problem is here?

Oh noes! The head of a religion might make a religious decision about religious stuff! Quick! Stop the madness!!!


The sticky point here is that many will assume a political agenda or something in this. Worse, ID when taken broadly isn't that different then what the Catholic Church has always believed. Essentially, that evolution is a perfectly good explanation for the "how", but that there's some divine hand kinda hanging around in the backround nudging human development along. Basic ID can't be dumped entirely, because the idea that God "created" the universe and everything in it is a pretty basic component of judeo-christian faith. And basic ID simply states that there is an "intelligence" behind creation.

The political ramifications only come in when some yahoos insist that ID means that evolution can't have occured. It's the "evolution can't explain everything, so it must be wholly incorrect" argument. Which isn't what even a tiny percentage of actual religious people believe, but tends to get a whole heck of a lot of media time.


My suspicion is that the Pope will accept the "intelligence behind creation" component of ID, but reject the "evolution doesn't explain everything so lets toss it out" component. Uh. Which isn't really a change at all.
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#17 Aug 28 2006 at 10:16 PM Rating: Decent
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gbaji wrote:
I'm just curious what the problem is here?

(1) ID has no credible evidence whatever.

(2) It shouldn't be taught in public schools, but there's a good chance the Christian right will renew their efforts to push the U.S. school system to teach ID (at least as an "alternative theory"). The Pope is apparently inspired by previous attempts. I think that sucks.

The only reason I brought it up is because people actually listen to the Pope (although I can't for the life of me understand why.)


#18 Aug 28 2006 at 10:31 PM Rating: Good
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The only reason I brought it up is because people actually listen to the Pope (although I can't for the life of me understand why.)


Because he drives around in a Pop-O-Matic!
#19 Aug 29 2006 at 4:22 AM Rating: Decent
OK, Popey, prepare to give "Flying Spaghetti Monsterism" a try.
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