People Vs GubbermentsFollow

Vonnegut's latest book? Copyright nineteen-seventy-what?

Apparently you're all wrong; he's this guy. Doesn't look like a Canuck, but who knows?

Nazism aside, Roosevelt killed lots of people.

Sorry, but this is silly. You can't just "put apartheid aside". Sure Ghandi did some nice work, and it would be cool if more people made revolutions by gathering salt, but it doesnt always work like that.

Also Hague was a stupid prick that built his campaign on anti-immigration, anti-Europe, anti-Euro policies. Great.

He did crack good jokes though, I'll give him that. Much funnier that Michael "peeple" Howard, or David "Lets-hug-a-hoodie" Cameron.

I think the solution is to force every 18-year olds to go on gap-years abroad. Make them see the world a bit. Really, there's nothing like it. Understanding other cultures. Realising that Zone 2 is not the end of the civilised world. That barbarians are not gathering across the English French Channel.

Still if nobby's 2nd rule of Geopolitics is true, Iranians and North Koreans must be incredibly nice people.

What Gandhi taught, or tried to teach, is that there is a non-violent solution to everything... if people are willing to pay the price. The price may be extreme, as others do not necessarily refrain from violence. The point is that people have to be creative and actively involved to effect the changes they want; sitting around ******** doesn't count.

Then someone shot him, so lesson learned, I guess.

We're back to the terrorist vs Freedom Fighter argument again.

Was the bombing of Dresden or Baghdad terrorism, or a blow for democracy?

I agree with your statement about Mandela (in the 1960s) and the same words can apply to Adams and McGiuinness in the 70s. However, once both parties finally realised that the spiral of tit-for-tat killings was achieving fUck-all, they had the courage to negotiate.

That meant the UK/S African Government risking the hatred of previous victims of violence (most of whom came round to supporting the negotiations) and Adams/Mandela risking assassination from the die-hards.

I get pissed off at the sanctification of Mandela too, but he (like so many great figures) moved from war-war to jaw-jaw.

A difference between that and Middle East is that the UK/SA Govts weren't blowing up entire Belfast/Soweto Suburbs because a loony provvie was spotted in a council flat or a tin shack.

Please keep in mind, a "democracy" is not inherently good because it has that label on its hat.

A democracy is just another form of government. Ever hear of "the tyranny of the masses?" A democracy put one of our greatest thinkers to death - Athens - Socrates (I know, Soc chose to drink hemlock instead of taking the other choice of punishment, which I believe was exhile - but I also believe he'd said in the trial he'd never accept exhile - so they put him to death).

This is precisely why the USA is not a "true democracy." And I thank God for it!