At the risk of being unpolitcally correct.Follow

Forgive me, i thought the checniyans where Gurilla fighters.

Still i don't think we need to worry about them at Heathrow though, do you?

I haven't switched at all. I lived in Rochdale for a long time which has a large Indian and Pakistani community, i went to collage with many from both and i could not be accurate in telling the difference, which is why i said all persons from the region. Pakistan was India at one stage and Muslims live on both sides of the border so it's pretty much pointless distinguishing them.

but we would still have got 3 out of the four right? probably all of them since they initailly travelled as a group.

thats really my point in all this.

It's not perfect, but it's at least something. We aren't solely hoping that the police catch them in time, we attually have something in place at the Airports that screens out 99% of people from extra checks and releases resources to make sure those checks are effective on the 1% and turn a massive delay into a negligable one.

as i said you will always get rogue elements but at least you have a chance to stop the majority.

Previously there was nothing and now there is a situation that could destroy the Airlines completely.

Kelvy, i'm a sailor remember.

Dude i've been awake for 30 hours now, i am so tired i'm not sure if i'm happy or just crazy... or a little of both.

I disagree with your assesment of the probable bombers, and i think that most security experts would agree when i say if there is going to be a bomber the likelihood is that he will.

1. Be second or third generation English/Pakistani or married to one

2. Have had contact with radical Ummams either in the UK or Pakistan and likely both.

3. In the months/year leading upto the attack have changed his dress and appearance to a more traditional Islamic atire.

If you choose to ignore these likelihoods then you are basically trying one arm behind your back.

Right there with ya.



So are you just talking in England now? Or on all airlines/countries. Because if it's the latter, the Pakistani doesn't make any sense - if you want to stick to your Arab/Aryan only motif then Lebanese or Palestinians are just as likely.


Typically this preparation is a shorter time period than that and when they enter this phase they keep themselves in seclusion so as not to disturb their spiritual preparation.

Besides, you've now gone from identifying and yanking people out from the airline gate to staking them out for months or a year - Hi, if you've identified a radical Imam and someone who has gone to see him has then gone into seclusion for a time well... that's not really profiling now is it. It's good old fashioned investigative work. Probably even enough for a pesky warrant.

And you know! Something that crazy just might work!

Profiling and searching only the Arabs/Indians at the airline gate is a heck of a far cry from staking out a radical Imam to see who comes to see him.

Go to sleep.

Everybody knows the war is over,
Everybody knows the good guys lost.
Everybody knows the fight was fixed,
The poor stay poor and the rich get rich
That's how it goes...
Everybody knows.

I love Don Henley...such a cynic.





Edited, Aug 14th 2006 at 9:17pm EDT by Ambrya

Tarv asked


And the answer is 'yes. It would be impossible to target the searches at people who we know are going to be commiting these acts.

Because we dont know who is going to be commiting these acts, and because 'profiling' is a tactic that has so many flaws and loopholes, that it doesnt work.

Profiling suspects is an incredibly lazy form of policing, that leads to infringements of the citizens rights, and resentments in the community that is targeted.

Simple. Next question.

"Godwin's." --Celcio

How so? I believe Danny was refering the pink hearts, yellow moons, orange stars, and green clover of me Lucky charms. They're magically delicious!

Totem

OMG

you got to get some Leonard Cohen if you like cynicism.

Back and more avlive... er awake after 8 hours in bed.

I realise that this issue has bounced of many issues and topics and can get a little confusing.

I am talk specifically about the Englands Airports, and the methods that should be employed to manage the risk of suicide bombers travelling on Aircraft leaving from them.

I'm not talking about Russia, i'm not talking about Iraq or Indonesia or any other hotbed of Islam.

The threat of Lebanese or Palestinian terrorists is much lower in this context.

You need to identify the what the threat is before you can make a security system to deal with it. Yes we do! Stop lying to yourself, you know who the liklihood of the bombers being Jimbob Johnson from Texas and Chin Sun Hi from China is extremely small and if it where they would have set of all sorts of alarms in the security sevices.

Besides you can't have a security system that removes all risk and still maintain itself, if you remove the vast majority of the threat then ou have to be happy.It's used by every police force in the world so it must have SOME uses.

and i sat wondering to myself, we know that the old lady on her way to Rome to meet her sister or the Hen party of to some sunny resort in the med are not going to be blowing the plane up, so why are they being treated in the same way as those who are in the high risk groups?

Would it really be impossible to target the searches to the people who we know are going to be commiting the acts?
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they look just like you or me. the people recently arested in the U.S. were 100 percent american. there have been several women suicide bombers. quite a few of the male suicide bombers had american schooling.

you want to be the one who is telling a jury you didnt search the old lady with a couple ounces of c4 (thats all it would take)because she didnt LOOK like a terrorist?

they are doing what they have to do. personally, they are not going far enough IMO. our western attitude that the world should bow to our incessant demand for instant gratification is catching up with us. infact, it is that very attitude that has landed us in this dark place to begine with.

some day, we will start dealing with the CAUSE of terrorism instead of constantly cleaning up after the fact. you take a group of people who are small and not powerfull, but willing to die for what they believe in, strip them of their voice and any choices, you get.....this.

mabe we should have listened when they told us they didnt want us on THEIR land. mabe we shouldnt have stayed where we were not welcome. mabe. mabe we should have respected THEIR freedom to live as THEY choose. mabe we shouldnt have tried to shove capitolism down their throats.

and mabe they shouldnt have been so demanding while sitting on all that oil..........

blood for oil. death for instant gratification. the american way.

Bloody Hell tarv

I'm gone for a couple of days and you hand your **** over to the entire forum.

I could make a cheap shot and remind you that Richard Whatsisname (Shoe Bomber) was a white Englishman converted to radical Islamism, or that one of the 7/7 bombers was an Englishman of African-Caribbean descent, similarly radicalised.
I could mention the clear links (via Al'Qaeda) between Chechnya and the 7/7 chappies. I might recall that our security chums believe that Osama's Friends & Family speed-dial pals are developing networks of innocent looking allies (older, whiter, more 'middle-class' looking) to take advantage of any weakening of security that you describe.

But I won't

****-poor arguments, I'm afraid, my little jjt.
Profiling would alienate even more currently moderate followers of Mo, and further alienate a disgruntled and harassed minority.

For what? So ickle Billy-Bob in the next seat can annoy the fUck out of me with his PSP making beeps and whistles, or his iPod playing the tinny version of Justine Timberland. FFS. it's hand-luggage, not manacles and tasers!

Re there any Women here?

I don't want anyone to throw any stones until. . . and I want to make myself absolutely clear. . until I blow this whistle. Even if somebody does say Jehovah.

Not a fan of curry, but I'll put a hurtin' on some chips.