At the risk of being unpolitcally correct. :: Free Realms

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#77 Aug 14 2006 at 2:43 PM Rating: Good

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tarv, you're crossing into gbaji-like realms here. Here, you object to my intimation that you're profiling muslims.

tarv of the Seven Seas wrote:

Quote:

So let me make sure I'm reading you right: You think that changing the status quo down to combing over Muslims with a wire fleabrush to see if any "terror" falls out is better than the system currently in place? Who decides who is Muslim? Do you tattoo them all with a symbol? Do you issue them identification badges? Have you thought this through?

Please quote me saying Muslims.

Arabic/Indian/Pakistani, not muslim.

You ask me to quote you, so I do, here:

tarv wrote:

Hundreds of thousands of ordinary people forced to bow to the islamic terrorist again, the financial cost in the millions.

And here, again, I intimate that you are advocating profiling based on ethnicity (ie, religion, ie muslims):

Quote:

Ah, I get it. People you SUSPECT of being an Islamist radical, but somehow Episcopalian. Smiley: rolleyes

Make up your mind. Are you profiling or not?

And here you get upset because I outright ask you to state that you are, in fact profiling:

tarv of the Seven Seas wrote:

I know i'm profiling thats the whole f*cking point.
profiling means you can direct resources to most effectively reduce the threat with the least amount of impact on the rest of the 200,000 people using Heathrow every day.

Or do you think it's a good idea to stop 198,000 people you know full well are never going to be the people you are looking for.

Thing is, I read you correctly, and you seem to keep having an issue with that. I'm not sure I get you. As for profiling, if you'd like to lay your neck on the line and say that you can pick out certain folk based on what you percieve to be their culture and count them totally inoffensive and no threat at all, by all means do so, but I reserve the right to think that your plan is ludicrous, ineffective, and unworkable.

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#78 Aug 14 2006 at 2:45 PM Rating: Excellent

Danalog

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Well, white people are more likely to blow up buildings with home-made bombs and send anthrax through the mail, so we'll let everyone else pass by building security and send stuff through the mail without checking.

Black people are the most likely to be in gangs, so we'll let everyone else wear gang paraphenalia in schools, and just crack down on black people.

Latinos are the most likely to be sneaking drugs into the US in their car, along with being the most likely to be using illegal car modifications, so we'll just tell the cops to pull them over for inspections and let everyone else through.

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#80 Aug 14 2006 at 2:50 PM Rating: Excellent

Danalog

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Youshutup wrote:

That an innocent man's right to liberty and equal treatment is less important than a clogged up airport.

QFT

All men are created equal, except for Muslims.

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#81 Aug 14 2006 at 2:50 PM Rating: Good

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Danalog the Vengeful Programmer wrote:

Latinos are the most likely to be sneaking drugs into the US in their car, along with being the most likely to be using illegal car modifications, so we'll just tell the cops to pull them over for inspections and let everyone else through.

Sweet! All I have to do is take my rosary off my rearview mirror and no one will EVER suspect me! Smiley: laugh

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#82 Aug 14 2006 at 2:52 PM Rating: Good

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Youshutup wrote:

Eske, perhaps you're right.. but he is proposing that they be punished because of what terrorists have done. That an innocent man's right to liberty and equal treatment is less important than a clogged up airport.

It's pretty symbolic. And such symbolism would not be lost on the public.

Aye, there's no doubt about how it would be interpreted negatively. I'm just pointing out silly little semantics thing, because I don't like to see the debate get out of control one way or the other.

Quote:

Well, white people are more likely to blow up buildings with home-made bombs and send anthrax through the mail, so we'll let everyone else pass by building security and send stuff through the mail without checking.

Black people are the most likely to be in gangs, so we'll let everyone else wear gang paraphenalia in schools, and just crack down on black people.

Latinos are the most likely to be sneaking drugs into the US in their car, along with being the most likely to be using illegal car modifications, so we'll just tell the cops to pull them over for inspections and let everyone else through.

I like that point. It really helps place things in context if you can wrap your brain around just how small the % is of terrorists within the muslim population as a whole. In that context, it just doesn't seem ethical to me.

Edited, Aug 14th 2006 at 3:58pm EDT by Eske

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#84 Aug 14 2006 at 2:53 PM Rating: Decent

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Thing is, I read you correctly, and you seem to keep having an issue with that. I'm not sure I get you. As for profiling, if you'd like to lay your neck on the line and say that you can pick out certain folk based on what you percieve to be their culture and count them totally inoffensive and no threat at all, by all means do so, but I reserve the right to think that your plan is ludicrous, ineffective, and unworkable.

OK Flea i'm going to write down a statement, i want you to tell me if you think that it's correct.

here goes:

The vast majority of islamic terrorists that would be operating out of the UK would be pakistani or arabic of decent.

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#85 Aug 14 2006 at 2:57 PM Rating: Good

bodhisattva

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F'ucking suck it up tarv. Wait the extra couple minutes in line, make sure your sh'its in order before there live with it. Don't ***** and ask them to target specific group and thus infringe on their rights just so things are easy for white people.

Selective screening leaves big wholes and only further disenfrancises a population of people that the west is trying to win over.

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#86 Aug 14 2006 at 2:57 PM Rating: Excellent

Danalog

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The Glorious Atomicflea wrote:

Danalog the Vengeful Programmer wrote:

Latinos are the most likely to be sneaking drugs into the US in their car, along with being the most likely to be using illegal car modifications, so we'll just tell the cops to pull them over for inspections and let everyone else through.

Sweet! All I have to do is take my rosary off my rearview mirror and no one will EVER suspect me! Smiley: laugh

And take that crown off the rear dash of your car that makes it look like Baby Jesus fell through the dashboard!

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#87 Aug 14 2006 at 2:57 PM Rating: Decent

Jawbox

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Danalog the Vengeful Programmer wrote:

Youshutup wrote:

That an innocent man's right to liberty and equal treatment is less important than a clogged up airport.

QFT

All men are created equal, except for Muslims.

Yes, because even my 80-year-old white grandma in a wheelchair has a right to get searched and her therapeutic shoes scanned for bombs!

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#88 Aug 14 2006 at 3:00 PM Rating: Good

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tarv of the Seven Seas wrote:

The vast majority of islamic terrorists that would be operating out of the UK would be pakistani or arabic of decent.

You want me to say whether or not that statement is "correct"? I would need to consult Scotland Yard first, although I bet they would refuse to turn over the data, due to my dusky tone, overall exotic looks and therefore percieved guilt. What a catch-22! Smiley: laugh

Seriously. What does it matter? My whole point is that you advocate ethnic profiling, I think it's dumb, and nothing will win me over to your side of the aisle because I realize that what we're fighting for (if we're actually fighting for anything) is a world where this kind of insouciance towards basic human rights is never the norm.

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#89 Aug 14 2006 at 3:00 PM Rating: Decent

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I was talking about muslims tarv. Are you saying they are all already radicalised?

(I better find a new grocer)

And if you want me to respond to your posts, try actually responding to mine. Unless you consider that trite reply a sufficient rebuttle, in which case.. woah.

Try and keep up old chap.

Ok picture the scene.

Mr Hussain arrives at Heathrow.

Gets to check in.

Loads his hold luggage (which gets a more detailed scan behind the scenes because he is a pakistani. Moves on to the departure lounge.

Goes through the metal detector, his hand luggage is checked, it takes 2-3 minutes with any electrical equipment tested and he answers a few basic questions about his destination and reason for travelling.

if anything worrying turns up he is asked to go to a private room for a more detailed discussion.

if there is no problem he flys on time as normal.

got any problem with that?

In answer to you question, yes a certain % of the muslim population are already radicalised, or did you miss the event of 7/7 and the last weekend?

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#90 Aug 14 2006 at 3:01 PM Rating: Good

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Danalog the Vengeful Programmer wrote:

And take that crown off the rear dash of your car that makes it look like Baby Jesus fell through the dashboard!

Pinche...

You're not the boss of me! Smiley: tongue

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#91 Aug 14 2006 at 3:06 PM Rating: Excellent

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tarv of the Seven Seas wrote:

Ok picture the scene.

Mr Tarv arrives at Heathrow.

Gets to check in.

Loads his hold luggage (which gets a more detailed scan behind the scenes because he's flying. Moves on to the departure lounge.

Goes through the metal detector, his hand luggage is checked, it takes 2-3 minutes with any electrical equipment tested and he answers a few basic questions about his destination and reason for travelling.

if anything worrying turns up he is asked to go to a private room for a more detailed discussion.

if there is no problem he flys on time as normal.

got any problem with that?

Seems like you have a huge problem with that. And yet Mr. Hussein, innocent sock sorter salesman, is supposed to think it's super.

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#92 Aug 14 2006 at 3:06 PM Rating: Decent

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Seriously. What does it matter? My whole point is that you advocate ethnic profiling, I think it's dumb, and nothing will win me over to your side of the aisle because I realize that what we're fighting for (if we're actually fighting for anything) is a world where this kind of insouciance towards basic human rights is never the norm.

Sorry to say Flea but that above statement is absolutely correct, and it would be foolish to act as though it wasn't.

Like it or not there are elements in the muslim community that hate us, we know it, they know it and there not a damn thing we can do to change thier minds, all we can do is protect ourselves from them.

Do you honestly think that the police didn't profile the people they arrested last week? do you honestly think they spend as much resources on anti terrorism units in leafy Kent as they do in the high muslim populations?

The Islamic community know it and really they should welcome it, if they want to rid themselves of this stigma.

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#93 Aug 14 2006 at 3:06 PM Rating: Good

bodhisattva

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[s][/s]

tarv of the Seven Seas wrote:

Quote:

I was talking about muslims tarv. Are you saying they are all already radicalised?

(I better find a new grocer)

And if you want me to respond to your posts, try actually responding to mine. Unless you consider that trite reply a sufficient rebuttle, in which case.. woah.

Try and keep up old chap.

Ok picture the scene.

Mr Hussain arrives at Heathrow.

Gets to check in.

Loads his hold luggage (which gets a more detailed scan behind the scenes because he is a pakistani. Moves on to the departure lounge.

Goes through the metal detector, his hand luggage is checked, it takes 2-3 minutes with any electrical equipment tested and he answers a few basic questions about his destination and reason for travelling.

if anything worrying turns up he is asked to go to a private room for a more detailed discussion.

if there is no problem he flys on time as normal.

got any problem with that?

In answer to you question, yes a certain % of the muslim population are already radicalised, or did you miss the event of 7/7 and the last weekend?

Just think of it,a

You're Mr Hussain. You've been a british citizen for 20 years, you went to a british college and you have a small practice in the middle imaginaryshiresfordham or whatever silly english name the town has, where you treat sick children.

You book a flight to see your brother in Riyhad, you're passport is order, your luggage is bagged and tagged and you arrive at the airport 1 hour early and proceed to board.

However you are seperated out of a crowd because you are from Saudi Arabia. You are then taken into a small room and questioned extensively while airport security goes through your luggage, cutting open the birthday present you bought for your nephew to make sure there are no bombs inside. After much questioning you are proven to be clear to fly.

You enter the plane, the last person on. Where you are eyed suspiciously by every single passenger who just saw you get pulled out of a line.

How woulda feel?

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#94 Aug 14 2006 at 3:08 PM Rating: Decent

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Just think of it,a

You're Mr Hussain. You've been a british citizen for 20 years, you went to a british college and you have a small practice in the middle imaginaryshiresfordham or whatever silly english name the town has, where you treat sick children.

You book a flight to see your brother in Riyhad, you're passport is order, your luggage is bagged and tagged and you arrive at the airport 1 hour early and proceed to board.

However you are seperated out of a crowd because you are from Saudi Arabia. You are then taken into a small room and questioned extensively while airport security goes through your luggage, cutting open the birthday present you bought for your nephew to make sure there are no bombs inside. After much questioning you are proven to be clear to fly.

You enter the plane, the last person on. Where you are eyed suspiciously by every single passenger who just saw you get pulled out of a line.

How woulda feel?

Safe.

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#95 Aug 14 2006 at 3:12 PM Rating: Good

bodhisattva

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tarv of the Seven Seas wrote:

Quote:

Just think of it,a

You're Mr Hussain. You've been a british citizen for 20 years, you went to a british college and you have a small practice in the middle imaginaryshiresfordham or whatever silly english name the town has, where you treat sick children.

You book a flight to see your brother in Riyhad, you're passport is order, your luggage is bagged and tagged and you arrive at the airport 1 hour early and proceed to board.

However you are seperated out of a crowd because you are from Saudi Arabia. You are then taken into a small room and questioned extensively while airport security goes through your luggage, cutting open the birthday present you bought for your nephew to make sure there are no bombs inside. After much questioning you are proven to be clear to fly.

You enter the plane, the last person on. Where you are eyed suspiciously by every single passenger who just saw you get pulled out of a line.

How woulda feel?

Safe.

Deeps thoughts from Her Royal Majestys Navy's Frie Cook.

Smiley: oyvey

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#96 Aug 14 2006 at 3:13 PM Rating: Decent

Jawbox

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bodhisattva wrote:

Just think of it,a

You're Mr Hussain. You've been a british citizen for 20 years, you went to a british college and you have a small practice in the middle imaginaryshiresfordham or whatever silly english name the town has, where you treat sick children.

You book a flight to see your brother in Riyhad, you're passport is order, your luggage is bagged and tagged and you arrive at the airport 1 hour early and proceed to board.

However you are seperated out of a crowd because you are from Saudi Arabia. You are then taken into a small room and questioned extensively while airport security goes through your luggage, cutting open the birthday present you bought for your nephew to make sure there are no bombs inside. After much questioning you are proven to be clear to fly.

You enter the plane, the last person on. Where you are eyed suspiciously by every single passenger who just saw you get pulled out of a line.

How woulda feel?

I would think "those mother fUcking radical ismalic terrorists are giving us all a bad name. Maybe we should speak out louder against them, too!"

(It sounds funnier in an Indian accent.)

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#97 Aug 14 2006 at 3:14 PM Rating: Decent

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tarv of the Seven Seas wrote:

Quote:

I was talking about muslims tarv. Are you saying they are all already radicalised?

(I better find a new grocer)

And if you want me to respond to your posts, try actually responding to mine. Unless you consider that trite reply a sufficient rebuttle, in which case.. woah.

Try and keep up old chap.

Ok picture the scene.

Mr Hussain arrives at Heathrow.

Gets to check in.

Loads his hold luggage (which gets a more detailed scan behind the scenes because he is a pakistani. Moves on to the departure lounge.

Goes through the metal detector, his hand luggage is checked, it takes 2-3 minutes with any electrical equipment tested and he answers a few basic questions about his destination and reason for travelling.

if anything worrying turns up he is asked to go to a private room for a more detailed discussion.

if there is no problem he flys on time as normal.

Until that is, he and the rest of his plane gets blown up by the white-looking convert who got passed through the process with a wink and a nod because of course, he can't possibly be a terrorist.

Fixed.

Oh, how quickly we forget Oklahoma City.

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#98 Aug 14 2006 at 3:17 PM Rating: Excellent

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tarv of the Seven Seas wrote:

Safe.

OK now do mine!

And really, that's what's happening now, you are Mr Hussein and getting searched and whatnot (ok actually you and Mr Hussein) - and you don't seem to feel safe. You seem to feel annoyed.

psst... yer pants're on fire.

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#99 Aug 14 2006 at 3:17 PM Rating: Excellent

Danalog

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tarv of the Seven Seas wrote:

Quote:

How woulda feel?

Safe.

I bet that's exactly what the... [Removed for Godwin's]

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#100 Aug 14 2006 at 3:20 PM Rating: Good

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tarv of the Seven Seas wrote:

Sorry to say Flea but that above statement is absolutely correct, and it would be foolish to act as though it wasn't.

Why would I? I wrote it, and I'm 100% behind it. Are you sure you read it right? I don't think you did.

Quote:

Do you honestly think that the police didn't profile the people they arrested last week? do you honestly think they spend as much resources on anti terrorism units in leafy Kent as they do in the high muslim populations?

Are you equating tailing people that they had done long-term investigations on once they were actually in the airport on their way to carry out a plan that intelligence had already been tipped off about "profiling"? Because again, I think our perceptions differ here.

Quote:

The Islamic community know it and really they should welcome it, if they want to rid themselves of this stigma.

I'm sure they'll bring it up at their weekly meetings, or when they all pass each other on the way to face Mecca. Really, in a thread of sub-par reasoning, this is a gem.

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At the risk of being unpolitcally correct.Follow