Webs in the sandFollow

Well, Lebanon isn't technically Israel's enemy, and I doubt we're giving aid to Hezbollah directly. Maybe I'm over-simplifying, but that's what Tony would say, methinks.

Nope. They're sending it to the victims of Israeli bombing.

Grey Areas ftw!!

Vittles and blankets to displaced Lebanese folks != Missiles & super hi-tech jet fighters to Israel

If anything, we're just keeping the vittles & blankets economy humming strong!

one can hope.

IIRC didnt the US just strike some kind of deal with the leaders of Leb. in the last year or so?

keeping in mind that Hezbolluah has nothing to do with the gov. of Leb. other then the fact they are stronger then the gov. forces in the south regeion of that country.

That argument doesn't hold water, on the basis that Israeli missiles and jet fighters are neither super nor high tech.


unfortunately I can't find the thread wherein this issue was discussed..

Oh for Gods sake...

aid' to Israel..All sorts o stuff that makes people dead. Including,
Aid to Lebanon. Yup. Blankets tents and food.

Hezbollahs main weapon of terror. Not excusing them using it ya understand. But Hi-tech? Not really.....

Israeli defence force ...Air power.

Israeli dead 37.

Lebanese dead-369.

All seems a bit one sided to me.


Debalic said


the Lebanese people are not the enemy. Hezbollah is the stated target. but, like usual, its the civilians who are getting slaughtered....

"the Lebanese people are not the enemy. Hezbollah is the stated target. but, like usual, its the civilians who are getting slaughtered..." --paulsol

They wouldn't be getting killed if Hezbollah wasn't so pu55y and staged their attacks away from civilian populations. But true to A-rab form, they continue to make the very people they claim to be protecting pay the price. Move along people. Nothing new here.

Totem

You'd rather they used imprecise missiles and bombs? Those weapons are why the Lebanese casualties aren't in the thousands right now. Think "Dresden"...





Only if you measure success by counting bodies. Which is incredibly stupid. Even moreso when dealing with any sort of military action.




That's true. And it's sad. But "don't fight back because you might kill some citezens in their country" hasn't ever been a viable reason for a nation to not defend itself. If Isreal didn't fight Hezbollah despite the risk to civilians, then it would only encourage more attacks from populated areas. You'd effectively give them a free pass to kill your people. Do you really think Isreal could survive under that kind of rule of engagement?

Eventually you have to face down and defeat groups like Hezbollah. The longer you wait, and the more you talk, and the more you make it plain exactly how much you are willing to let them do just to avoid a fight, the worse it is in the long run. If nothing else, history should have taught us that. Unfortunately, it seems like that particular lesson just doesn't stick with some people.

Unless you are of A-rab extraction, paulsol, I suspect I have far more experience in dealing with Middle Easterners than most on this board here. Moreover, my views are derived from personal contact with said A-rabs in their own homelands, unlike yours, which I suspect is based on soft and muddled thinking formed by the anti-Jewish bias prevalent in today's media.

Correct me if I am wrong in my assumption of your beliefs, but your lack of hand wringing for the Israeli civilian deaths from Hezbollah rockets speaks volumes about your personal preference for a rather nasty and particularly viscious group of people.

Totem

Totem :



Your wrong. I lived in Israel for 4 years in the early 90's. In Eilat, Tel Aviv and Afula. I count amongst friends of mine, Israelis, Palestinians and various others, including arabs, who choose to live in the region. My experiences stem from living and working and playing with the people who I met there.

I feel terrible for ALL the people who live in that area, because I know it is not the fault of the 'people' of Israel (or the Lebanese, or the Palestinians) that the situation they find themselves in is so horrific. It is a region that has suffered from the machinations of politicians, many local politicians for sure, but mainly from the ambitions of cynical western leaders, who are cynically using the various peoples there to further their own twisted power trips.

I've said it before, people, wether they are Israeli, Palestinian or anyone else, just want to live in peace. they wanna work for money to look after the families that they wish to raise in safety.. they wanna play football in the park on their day off, and they want to follow their religion.

Back when I was there, thats what we did. Sure the Palestinians had a long way to go to achieve their freedoms, but they were on the 'right track'. I worked with as many 'Pallies', as I did with Israelis. We played footie on the beach at dizengoff together, and we camped in the Negev together. And we got drunk in the bars of Eilat TOGETHER.

So whats changed since then? the people are still the same. the bars are still there. the work still needs doing. Whats changed since then, Totem, is the Politics. Thats whats changed. Dont you accuse me of not caring. I do care for everyone who is suffering there. Wether they are sitting in a shelter in Haifa, or stranded in a village in Southern lebanon.

Its you who doesn't seem to give a ****. because its you and people like you, who think that you are somehow better than 'them'. So much so that you think that all the problems there can be sorted out by dropping bombs on them all.

You are a self rightous ****.

Oh yeah? Well feel free to suck my Richard, paulsol. That can't-we-all-just-get-along Pollyannaism makes me puke. Just like those peace loving, alcohol shunning Muslims you were so happily getting drunk with, their professed desire to live in peace flies in the face of continued suicide and car bombings, rocket attacks, and civil unrest.

If I've said it once, I've said it a thousand times: if A-rabs want peace, all they have to do is stop behaving badly and killing Israelis. It's not Israel who instigates these crisis, it's the Muslims who actually believe in their own propoganda about the Jews stealing their land. What utter bullsh1t. The only ones who kept the Pallies down were their fellow A-rabs. No one else, paulsol. Don't tell me it's just politics and the actions of the empowered elite. That's just more bullsh1t. Israel has already acknowledged the need for a Palestinian state, given back land won lawfully in armed combat, and has bent over backwards to accomodate antagonistic and violence prone neighbors who surround them on all sides.

Understand this clearly: the onus is squarely on A-rabs to create a peaceful solution. Period.

Totem

Utter Botox!

C'mon, paulsol, you can do it. Three little words, that's all. You can say it, c'mon-- I... was... wrong. See? That wasn't so hard now, was it?

Who has been keeping the Pallies down? Certainly not the Israelis. Hmmm, perhaps their own leaders? You know, that Arafat guy? The guy who had his personal billions of dollars siphoned off from international aid-- yes, billions with a B as in bird --while his countrymen lived in squalor? You remember him from your drinking days with your Pally chums, don't you?

Or maybe it has been other A-rab nations who have no other stake in Palestine's future other than to foment bigotry and hatred by stirring up conflict between the two states? You know, those other A-rab countries who refused to create a Palestinian state because Pallies are in essence the Irishmen of the Middle East and nobody wants the hassle of having troublemaking neighbors next door? Yeah, yeah. Those A-rab nations.

Perhaps it's those devout Muslims who continually use the "My brother Muslims are being killed by the Jews who in turn are being funded by the Great Satan, America" shtick. You know, those guys who indiscriminately kill thousands of their own fellow believers with bombs, death squads, and kidnapping/execution roundups? The same guys who proclaim that all their behavior is for the betterment of the Palestinians? Yeah, yeah, those guys.

It could even be one of those rogue terrorist organizations that reside in sovereign countries not their own, but act in accordance with the strings being pulled by other terrorist supporting nations like Iran, Syria, and Saudi Arabia. Whatchoo think? Maybe them?

Noooooo, couldn't be. The fault lies squarely on the shoulders of those big bad Israelis, that country that doesn't instigate any of the wars or conflicts in the region. Let's place the blame on Israel, the country that has shamed every other Middle Eastern nation by taking a crappy piece of land and making it fertile, and allowing its citizenry to take part in the political process.

But what do I know? I'm just an arrogant, self righteous Richard with his Alabama black Richard in your mouth who's schooling you on the way things are over there, even though you supposedly lived in Israel. Kinda weird how someone who should know better from seeing things with his own eyes still can be fooled into dog piling on the one country which is genuinely interested in peace over there, isn't it?

Hey, use a little more lip and tongue action, paulsol. And less teeth. If my d1ck is gonna remain firmly planted in your cheek, it might as well be a pleasurable experience for me. Just sayin'.

Totem