- Forums
- Cross Site
- The Asylum
- Like I said.....
Like I said.....Follow
/whooooooooosh
just a little FYI, my specs working on the F-16 were as follows:
7 level with Red X status (those who work airframes know what this means)
C-shop (radios, navigation, defence systems both electronic and mechanical)
started cross training in A and B shop. that is the rest of the avionics to include the FCC (that is the fire control computer for you civs and the rest who have never worked on an combat airframe), as well as the radar and targeting systems. encrypted communcations etc...
the only thing i have not worked on with the F-16 is the newer GPS stuff and I am not even sure the F-16 is dropping GPS guided bombs. I know they are/were dropping lazar guided munitions and i can tell you that is a royal PITA to troubleshoot and keep working well, but not as hard as the jaming system is... talk about a nightmare to troubleshoot.
anyways. i know my **** about the F-16 and have first hand info on the F-15 with the exception of the F-15e, but that is more of a air to ground attack airframe and the Israel AF has none of them.
Yes several of the F-16s i worked on were brand new, but there were also several that were older then my brother. kind of scary to think of it that way. all of the F-15s my brother works on are his age or older and he is 30.
IIRC the Israel AF does not even have the newer F-16 C or D only the older A and B mods. that and the fact i know they do not have the newer GD110 engine and only the older GD100. there is almost a 2-1 power differance between the 100 and the 110. the 110 has a max thrust in the 24-26k range, while the 110 is between 36-40k. the F-16 in normal combat load only weighs in at 26k, and with full load of ground attack bombs comes in at just over 31k (that 31,000 lbs)
with the GD100 a fully loaded F-16 is under the 1-1 thrust to weight ratio that makes it such a great low end fighter. with the GD110 it never drops below the 1-1 thrust to weight ratio thus greating improving its performance.
also the A/B mods have a G cap of 8, but the C/D mods can hit 10, but the FCC is programed to "not" alow it to go over 9G. It can be tricked and it will hit 10G with an experiance pilot.
As far as I am concerned some of the best pilots in the world are from Israel. Those guys can consistantly pull more Gs then any pilots I have ever seen on a HUD video and do so with faster recovery times too. very impressive.
7 level with Red X status (those who work airframes know what this means)
C-shop (radios, navigation, defence systems both electronic and mechanical)
started cross training in A and B shop. that is the rest of the avionics to include the FCC (that is the fire control computer for you civs and the rest who have never worked on an combat airframe), as well as the radar and targeting systems. encrypted communcations etc...
the only thing i have not worked on with the F-16 is the newer GPS stuff and I am not even sure the F-16 is dropping GPS guided bombs. I know they are/were dropping lazar guided munitions and i can tell you that is a royal PITA to troubleshoot and keep working well, but not as hard as the jaming system is... talk about a nightmare to troubleshoot.
anyways. i know my **** about the F-16 and have first hand info on the F-15 with the exception of the F-15e, but that is more of a air to ground attack airframe and the Israel AF has none of them.
Yes several of the F-16s i worked on were brand new, but there were also several that were older then my brother. kind of scary to think of it that way. all of the F-15s my brother works on are his age or older and he is 30.
IIRC the Israel AF does not even have the newer F-16 C or D only the older A and B mods. that and the fact i know they do not have the newer GD110 engine and only the older GD100. there is almost a 2-1 power differance between the 100 and the 110. the 110 has a max thrust in the 24-26k range, while the 110 is between 36-40k. the F-16 in normal combat load only weighs in at 26k, and with full load of ground attack bombs comes in at just over 31k (that 31,000 lbs)
with the GD100 a fully loaded F-16 is under the 1-1 thrust to weight ratio that makes it such a great low end fighter. with the GD110 it never drops below the 1-1 thrust to weight ratio thus greating improving its performance.
also the A/B mods have a G cap of 8, but the C/D mods can hit 10, but the FCC is programed to "not" alow it to go over 9G. It can be tricked and it will hit 10G with an experiance pilot.
As far as I am concerned some of the best pilots in the world are from Israel. Those guys can consistantly pull more Gs then any pilots I have ever seen on a HUD video and do so with faster recovery times too. very impressive.
Nobody gives a fUck. Seriously, nobody.
Singdall wrote:
without those upgrades you will not be dropping guided munitions it is just not going to happen.
Do thermal imaging or TV manned guidance count, or are satellite and GPS the only systems you bother acknowledging?
publiusvarus wrote:
we all know liberals are well adjusted american citizens who only want what's best for society. While conservatives are evil money grubbing scum who only want to sh*t on the little man and rob the world of its resources.
Quote:
The long-awaited Israeli F-16I Sufa ('Storm') rolled off Lockheed Martin's production line in Texas last week into the waiting hands of Israeli Defense Minister Shaul Mofaz, who was on scene to receive the new aircraft, the first of 102 ordered by Jerusalem in 1997.
The Israeli Air Force (IAF) chose to acquire the latest version of the world renowned Lockheed Martin F-16 over additional purchases of the more expensive twin engine Boeing F-15I - for which the IAF placed an order for 25 in 1997. The estimated $4.5 billion dollar F-16I deal ($45 million per aircraft) will be financed by the annual U.S. military aid package and concludes the largest Israeli military purchase in history. Each F-15 cost approximately $84 million.
[...]
The Lahav technology will allow for simultaneous, multi-target air-to-air engagement and increased standoff and survivability capabilities. The F-16I has been earmarked to receive the new Python 5 imaging infrared-guided high agility air-to-air missile produced by Rafael, the former Israeli Armaments Development Authority. The predecessor to the Python 5, the Python 4, was regarded to be the most advanced heat-seeking missile in the world. The Python 5 boasts a new seeker less prone to countermeasures, lock-after-launch capabilities, and an extended operational engagement time once fired. In addition, the Northrop Grumman AN/APG-68(V)9 multimode radar increases the distance of airborne engagement by 30 percent over the older APG-69 system and affords the "Sufa" with a high-resolution synthetic-aperture ground mapping capability.
[...]
The Advanced Block 50/52 can employ the latest generation targeting systems, such as the Lockheed Martin Sniper XR/Pantera targeting pod that is mounted on the right inlet sensor station. In conjunction with laser-guided bombs, the pod provides day/night precision strikes from high altitudes. Among other uses, the targeting systems can be used for seeker cueing of a variety of guided weapons and covert air-to-air operations.
The Israeli Air Force (IAF) chose to acquire the latest version of the world renowned Lockheed Martin F-16 over additional purchases of the more expensive twin engine Boeing F-15I - for which the IAF placed an order for 25 in 1997. The estimated $4.5 billion dollar F-16I deal ($45 million per aircraft) will be financed by the annual U.S. military aid package and concludes the largest Israeli military purchase in history. Each F-15 cost approximately $84 million.
[...]
The Lahav technology will allow for simultaneous, multi-target air-to-air engagement and increased standoff and survivability capabilities. The F-16I has been earmarked to receive the new Python 5 imaging infrared-guided high agility air-to-air missile produced by Rafael, the former Israeli Armaments Development Authority. The predecessor to the Python 5, the Python 4, was regarded to be the most advanced heat-seeking missile in the world. The Python 5 boasts a new seeker less prone to countermeasures, lock-after-launch capabilities, and an extended operational engagement time once fired. In addition, the Northrop Grumman AN/APG-68(V)9 multimode radar increases the distance of airborne engagement by 30 percent over the older APG-69 system and affords the "Sufa" with a high-resolution synthetic-aperture ground mapping capability.
[...]
The Advanced Block 50/52 can employ the latest generation targeting systems, such as the Lockheed Martin Sniper XR/Pantera targeting pod that is mounted on the right inlet sensor station. In conjunction with laser-guided bombs, the pod provides day/night precision strikes from high altitudes. Among other uses, the targeting systems can be used for seeker cueing of a variety of guided weapons and covert air-to-air operations.
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
well, looks like someone just got joph-smacked in the mouth.
Edited, Jul 19th 2006 at 4:47pm EDT by Frakkor
Edited, Jul 19th 2006 at 4:47pm EDT by Frakkor
Cyber-Bully!
Debalic wrote:
Singdall wrote:
without those upgrades you will not be dropping guided munitions it is just not going to happen.
Do thermal imaging or TV manned guidance count, or are satellite and GPS the only systems you bother acknowledging?
not at all. the TV and manually guided munitions are not as accurate as the GPS or lazar (fyi, sat and GPS are the same thing)
also the maverick, i am guessing that is the missle you are refering to, as good as it is, fires much better from the A-10 or an attack helicoptor much better due to the fact they are more stable for extended times vs the F-16.
I do not know if the israle AF has the avionics to fire those, but an upgraded A or B mod. F-16 does have that capability, and Israel has used them with the F-15 back in the 70s during the Yom Kippur War. also keep in mind those were used in OPEN space vs tanks with perfect conditions.
a city enviroment is a bit cluttered for an F-16 or 15 to fire a maverick missle. now for an attack helicoptor that is a different story, but the history of Israel gunships attack are with unguided straight tube missles.
just a bit of history on that missle for you.
also i am not sure the israel AF has a FLiR system or not, they very well could.
I think it's deep enough now singdall.
Put down the shovel and hunker down.
Someone might drop you a rope ladder later when you've stopped looking like such an cUnt.
Put down the shovel and hunker down.
Someone might drop you a rope ladder later when you've stopped looking like such an cUnt.
"I started out with nothin' and I still got most of it left" - Seasick Steve
Jophiel wrote:
Quote:
The long-awaited Israeli F-16I Sufa ('Storm') rolled off Lockheed Martin's production line in Texas last week into the waiting hands of Israeli Defense Minister Shaul Mofaz, who was on scene to receive the new aircraft, the first of 102 ordered by Jerusalem in 1997.
The Israeli Air Force (IAF) chose to acquire the latest version of the world renowned Lockheed Martin F-16 over additional purchases of the more expensive twin engine Boeing F-15I - for which the IAF placed an order for 25 in 1997. The estimated $4.5 billion dollar F-16I deal ($45 million per aircraft) will be financed by the annual U.S. military aid package and concludes the largest Israeli military purchase in history. Each F-15 cost approximately $84 million.
[...]
The Lahav technology will allow for simultaneous, multi-target air-to-air engagement and increased standoff and survivability capabilities. The F-16I has been earmarked to receive the new Python 5 imaging infrared-guided high agility air-to-air missile produced by Rafael, the former Israeli Armaments Development Authority. The predecessor to the Python 5, the Python 4, was regarded to be the most advanced heat-seeking missile in the world. The Python 5 boasts a new seeker less prone to countermeasures, lock-after-launch capabilities, and an extended operational engagement time once fired. In addition, the Northrop Grumman AN/APG-68(V)9 multimode radar increases the distance of airborne engagement by 30 percent over the older APG-69 system and affords the "Sufa" with a high-resolution synthetic-aperture ground mapping capability.
[...]
The Advanced Block 50/52 can employ the latest generation targeting systems, such as the Lockheed Martin Sniper XR/Pantera targeting pod that is mounted on the right inlet sensor station. In conjunction with laser-guided bombs, the pod provides day/night precision strikes from high altitudes. Among other uses, the targeting systems can be used for seeker cueing of a variety of guided weapons and covert air-to-air operations.
The Israeli Air Force (IAF) chose to acquire the latest version of the world renowned Lockheed Martin F-16 over additional purchases of the more expensive twin engine Boeing F-15I - for which the IAF placed an order for 25 in 1997. The estimated $4.5 billion dollar F-16I deal ($45 million per aircraft) will be financed by the annual U.S. military aid package and concludes the largest Israeli military purchase in history. Each F-15 cost approximately $84 million.
[...]
The Lahav technology will allow for simultaneous, multi-target air-to-air engagement and increased standoff and survivability capabilities. The F-16I has been earmarked to receive the new Python 5 imaging infrared-guided high agility air-to-air missile produced by Rafael, the former Israeli Armaments Development Authority. The predecessor to the Python 5, the Python 4, was regarded to be the most advanced heat-seeking missile in the world. The Python 5 boasts a new seeker less prone to countermeasures, lock-after-launch capabilities, and an extended operational engagement time once fired. In addition, the Northrop Grumman AN/APG-68(V)9 multimode radar increases the distance of airborne engagement by 30 percent over the older APG-69 system and affords the "Sufa" with a high-resolution synthetic-aperture ground mapping capability.
[...]
The Advanced Block 50/52 can employ the latest generation targeting systems, such as the Lockheed Martin Sniper XR/Pantera targeting pod that is mounted on the right inlet sensor station. In conjunction with laser-guided bombs, the pod provides day/night precision strikes from high altitudes. Among other uses, the targeting systems can be used for seeker cueing of a variety of guided weapons and covert air-to-air operations.
that is newer info then when i worked last with the F-16. i do stand corrected.
that is a vast improvement over the F-16C/D airframe, impressive that i vs...
Singdall wrote:
NephthysWanderer the Charming wrote:
Quote:
hello, this is not making **** up, this is coming from personal experiance. i worked on the F-16 as an avionics spec. i have worked with the Israely
I worked on the Palestiny lazar jetplanes from '97 to '01. I premarilee speshulized in bombs and guns and missiles.
Hello.
dont know that airframe, but i do know the F-16 damn well. I also have family who works on the F-15 active at Eglin AFB. I have had enough conversations with him both before and after his deployments to the ME and he has confirmed that the avionics package on the F-15 used by the Israel AF is what the USAF was using almost 30 years ago.
so again, link up, or prove that the Israel AF is using an upgraded/updated avionics package on those 2 airframe and ill just go away. I am more then willing to admit i am wrong, but not when i have overwhelming first hand account, both from self and brother, that those 2 airframes are not using lazar or gps guided munitions today and do not have the avionics to do so.
Please, PLEASE tell me you were f'ucking joking. It's scary.
Israel does use gunships, like the Cobra AH1 supplied with laser-guided Hellfire missiles (I did mis-speak earlier and meant to say "satellite and laser guidance"). Granted, much of this equipment comes directly from the US, but a lot of the technologies are jointly developed between the two nations.
publiusvarus wrote:
we all know liberals are well adjusted american citizens who only want what's best for society. While conservatives are evil money grubbing scum who only want to sh*t on the little man and rob the world of its resources.
Gbaji said
Also
And singdall talked utter bollox about weaponry he obviously knows feck all about,to excuse the scores of civilian deaths.
Bolton said:
So. We know where you two stand.
Meanwhile.....
The completely disproportionate response continues
And no, I dont hate jews. I hate what the Israeli government, backed by various western powers, is doing to the people of that region. Having lived in that region for some time, I feel that I should be allowed to have an opinion. Im no more anti 'jew' than I am anti 'american'.
Its a strange and frightening phenomenon of late that criticism of the state of israel, is considered anti semitism.
And just for the record, I'm glad no-one,( other than gbaji, who I would expect to spout such nonsense) has tried to convince anyone of the overwhelming 'accuracy' of the Hezbollah rockets.
Quote:
And if civilians happen to be there, there will be casualties.
Also
Quote:
1. Specific rocket installations. These tend to be hidden among populated areas, so it's hard to hit them without hitting people who might be nearby.
Quote:
Yeah. This sucks for the citizens of Lebanon because they can't get supplies either. But there's nothing militarily "wrong" with doing that.
And singdall talked utter bollox about weaponry he obviously knows feck all about,to excuse the scores of civilian deaths.
Bolton said:
Quote:
"I think it would be a mistake to ascribe moral equivalence to civilians who die as the direct result of malicious terrorist acts," he added, while defending as "self-defense" Israel's military action, which has had "the tragic and unfortunate consequence of civilian deaths".
So. We know where you two stand.
Meanwhile.....
The completely disproportionate response continues
And no, I dont hate jews. I hate what the Israeli government, backed by various western powers, is doing to the people of that region. Having lived in that region for some time, I feel that I should be allowed to have an opinion. Im no more anti 'jew' than I am anti 'american'.
Its a strange and frightening phenomenon of late that criticism of the state of israel, is considered anti semitism.
And just for the record, I'm glad no-one,( other than gbaji, who I would expect to spout such nonsense) has tried to convince anyone of the overwhelming 'accuracy' of the Hezbollah rockets.
"If you have selfish, ignorant citizens, you're gonna get selfish, ignorant leaders". Carlin.
Isreal bombing the country geographicaly next door because they are under direct attack from bombs being launched from said country = Bad.
America bombing a country 1000's of miles away because of lose intel that a terrorist who made 1 attack on them "Might" be there = good.
Hypocracy anyone?
Personally i don't think either Isreal or Lebbanon have handled this particularly well, but i think the reaction would be even less considered if mexico started launching missles into Dallas.
Ask what you would be asking from your govenment, if your country was attacked in this way.
America bombing a country 1000's of miles away because of lose intel that a terrorist who made 1 attack on them "Might" be there = good.
Hypocracy anyone?
Personally i don't think either Isreal or Lebbanon have handled this particularly well, but i think the reaction would be even less considered if mexico started launching missles into Dallas.
Ask what you would be asking from your govenment, if your country was attacked in this way.
tarv of the Seven Seas wrote:
Personally i don't think either Isreal or Lebbanon have handled this particularly well.
there is a bigger problem here that was posted earlier.
it is not the Lebbonese gov. that is the root of the problem, well unless it is due to the fact they are either to week or just dont want to complie with the agreement they made with the UN, Isreal, and them self.
A large part of the agreement was the full disarmament of Hezbullah and obviously this has not happend. either the Leb. gov can not, or will not, but in either case that is a large part of the problem.
isreal has flat out stated that is a large part of the problem and even if they get their soldiers back i doubt they will stop attacking until hezbullah is destroyed, the UN steps in and disarms them, or something to that affect happens.
to be blunt i am supprised to see Israel being so benign to Palastine and Hamas for doing the same thing. Yes Israel has attacked several hamas gov. building, but nothing to the extent of what is happening in Leb. That could be due to Iran and Syria's involvement, we know that is the reason for attacking the infrastructor.
either way it is an ugly situation, i have learned that as of less then 10 years ago IAF has massivly upgraded their F-16 wings to a far more powerful airframe then they had when last i worked with them in the late 80s, early 90s. left the USAF in 1990 so a few years before Isreal took possesion the newest F-16s. im still impressed with that F-16i vs. did a little more reading on it, and wow, hardly comes close to the upgrade in power they did going from the F-16A/B line.
hmm well to reiterate what i have been saying and to answere the OPs question about who is the terrorist here:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5196800.stm
lets see.
so Hezbollah is directly attacking ONLY civilians, the act of terrorism is to scare the civilian population and to terroise them. looks like that is exactly what hezbollah is doing.. so chaulk 1 point up for Hez. as being a terrorist organization.
hmm the PM of Lebanon is calling for a ceasefire between who? Israel and Hezboolah, wow... Not a ceasefire between Isreal and Lebanon, no, the terrorist and Isreal is who he is asking for a stop of aggression.
again chaulk up 1 point for Hez. being a terrorist group, so that is now 2 points for hez, 0 for Is.
hmm again we have Hez. attacking no millitary target, but civilian targets. add an other point for hez. being the terrorist organization here.
hmm subtract one point from Is. at being the terrorist as they are targeting hez. installations, munition factories, etc... they are not directly targeting civilians.
so that is at least 4 points for Hezbollah being the terrorists and Isreal defending its people from attack by said terrorists.
so yes who is the real terrorist here? Hezbollah. Is what Isreal doing to the level they are doing 100% the right thing to do? i am not sure, but it is a continuation of the fact that the Leb. gov. is not powerful enough or does not want to disarm the terrorist group Hezbollah as they agreed to do many years ago.
http://almashriq.hiof.no/lebanon/300/320/327/israel-lebanon.txt
1983 to be specific.
and here is why Lebanon is at fault:
in other words when the Leb. gov. chose to do NOTHING about Hezbollah and their terrorist activities, they null and voided the terms of the end of the war and are 100% to be held accountable for all actions taken by Israel to defend it self.
welcome to the real world.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5196800.stm
lets see.
Quote:
For their part, Hezbollah fired dozens of rockets at Israeli cities including Haifa and Tiberias.
so Hezbollah is directly attacking ONLY civilians, the act of terrorism is to scare the civilian population and to terroise them. looks like that is exactly what hezbollah is doing.. so chaulk 1 point up for Hez. as being a terrorist organization.
Quote:
The Lebanese prime minister has called for an immediate ceasefire between Israel and Hezbollah militants, saying his country "has been torn to shreds".
hmm the PM of Lebanon is calling for a ceasefire between who? Israel and Hezboolah, wow... Not a ceasefire between Isreal and Lebanon, no, the terrorist and Isreal is who he is asking for a stop of aggression.
again chaulk up 1 point for Hez. being a terrorist group, so that is now 2 points for hez, 0 for Is.
Quote:
Barrages of Hezbollah rockets have been fired into northern Israel, where two children were killed in Nazareth.
Twenty-nine Israelis have died - including 15 civilians killed by rocket attacks - since the Israeli offensive against Hezbollah militants began eight days ago.
Twenty-nine Israelis have died - including 15 civilians killed by rocket attacks - since the Israeli offensive against Hezbollah militants began eight days ago.
hmm again we have Hez. attacking no millitary target, but civilian targets. add an other point for hez. being the terrorist organization here.
Quote:
The strikes came as Israeli ground troops continued what they call "restricted pinpoint attacks" into southern Lebanon.
hmm subtract one point from Is. at being the terrorist as they are targeting hez. installations, munition factories, etc... they are not directly targeting civilians.
so that is at least 4 points for Hezbollah being the terrorists and Isreal defending its people from attack by said terrorists.
so yes who is the real terrorist here? Hezbollah. Is what Isreal doing to the level they are doing 100% the right thing to do? i am not sure, but it is a continuation of the fact that the Leb. gov. is not powerful enough or does not want to disarm the terrorist group Hezbollah as they agreed to do many years ago.
http://almashriq.hiof.no/lebanon/300/320/327/israel-lebanon.txt
1983 to be specific.
and here is why Lebanon is at fault:
Quote:
ARTICLE 4
1. The territory of each Party will not be used as a base for hostile or
terrorist activity against the other Party its territory or its
people.
2. Each Party will prevent the existence or organization of irregular
forces armed bands organizations bases offices or infrastructure
the aims and purposes of which include incursions or any act of
terrorism into the territory of the other Party or any other activity
aimed at threatening or endangering the security of the other Party and
safety of its people. To this end all agreements and arrangements
enabling the presence and functioning on the territory of either Party
of elements hostile to the other Party are null and void.
1. The territory of each Party will not be used as a base for hostile or
terrorist activity against the other Party its territory or its
people.
2. Each Party will prevent the existence or organization of irregular
forces armed bands organizations bases offices or infrastructure
the aims and purposes of which include incursions or any act of
terrorism into the territory of the other Party or any other activity
aimed at threatening or endangering the security of the other Party and
safety of its people. To this end all agreements and arrangements
enabling the presence and functioning on the territory of either Party
of elements hostile to the other Party are null and void.
in other words when the Leb. gov. chose to do NOTHING about Hezbollah and their terrorist activities, they null and voided the terms of the end of the war and are 100% to be held accountable for all actions taken by Israel to defend it self.
welcome to the real world.
Cant be ***** to reply to Sigdalls post. Already did it here.
"If you have selfish, ignorant citizens, you're gonna get selfish, ignorant leaders". Carlin.
"So now that we know what the official stance is, anyone feel like defendind the idea that some (read Lebanese)peoples lives are somehow worth less than others (read Israeli)?" --paulson
/raises his hand
My opinion on this subject will change once A-rabs get with the program and learn to play well with others.
Totem
/raises his hand
My opinion on this subject will change once A-rabs get with the program and learn to play well with others.
Totem
Recent Visitors: 360
All times are in CST
Anonymous Guests (360)
- Forums
- Cross Site
- The Asylum
- Like I said.....
© 2024 Fanbyte LLC