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Hezbollah leader vows "open war"Follow

#53 Jul 20 2006 at 8:29 PM Rating: Good
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paulsol wrote:
Hezbollah was formed to resist the invasion by the IDF. It wasnt set up to 'wipe Israel off the map'. It was set up to 'repel the invaders'.


Exactly how many Isreali soldiers were in Lebanon from 2001 to 2006? Zero?

This is the third time that Hezbollah has kidnapped Isreali's in order to use them to trade for prisoners held by Isreal. Some might call that a pattern.

Isreal did not start this conflict. It did not raid into Lebanese territory. It was attacked by Hezbollah *from* Lebanon. Hezbollah had been indiscriminately targetting civilians during this conflict. Isreal has specifically been targetting Hezbollah weapons sites, Hezbollah control centers, and support and supply infrastructure (yeah. that includes roads, bridges, and ports).


Hezbollah succeeded in repeling the invaders. Why then are they starting up more fighting? Isreal was not in Lebanon when this started. Funny definition of "repel" you have that apparently includes invading someone else's country, killing their citizens, and kidnapping them for ransom. It's not terribly hard to see who's in the wrong here. How on earth is it that you can't?
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More words please
#54 Jul 20 2006 at 8:37 PM Rating: Decent
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Youshutup wrote:
Israel launches rockets that it knows will not kill anyone but civilians -> Israel has killed civilians.

Understand?

Would you like an illustrated diagram?


Yeah. Because that's simply not what's happening. Do you have any idea how many bombs Isreal has dropped during this? The casualty rate is incredibly low.

Of course Israel has killed civilians. Because there's no way not to kill some when you drop that many bombs. Doubly so when the guys you're shooting at build their headquarters and store their weapons in apartment buildings full of civilians. The point is intent. Isreal is not deliberately targetting civilians. Hezbollah is. See the difference?

Lebanon is the sovereign state from which these attacks occured. They are ultimately responsible. They may need help dealing with Hezbollah, but you cannot blame Isreal for taking action to defend itself. I'm just amazed that here was have an absolutely clear cut example of Hezbollah simply ignoring every agreement in order to attack Isreal, and you're *still* trying to defend them. Why? Is it really that hard for you to just accept that they are a nasty buch of people who just enjoy killing people?

Why can't anyone learn from history? Yeah. Hezbollah's just a peaceful group of people illegally occupying part of Lebanon. No. They don't intend to hurt anyone. They're just there to repel people who aren't in the country any more. Nah. We don't need to disarm them. They're peaceful see... Oh wait! They attacked another country. But they didn't mean to do that. They were just, um... reacting! Yeah. That's it, they were reacting to some um... threat or something. See. Isreal was looking at them funny or something. Yeah. That's it!


I'm serious here. How can you defend them? How can you not see what is utterly obvious to pretty much everyone else in the world? Why do you (and many others unfortunately) continue to appologies for the actions of groups like Hezbollah? It's insane.
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King Nobby wrote:
More words please
#55 Jul 20 2006 at 11:00 PM Rating: Decent
gbaji wrote:


Lebanon is the sovereign state from which these attacks occured. They are ultimately responsible. They may need help dealing with Hezbollah, but you cannot blame Isreal for taking action to defend itself. I'm just amazed that here was have an absolutely clear cut example of Hezbollah simply ignoring every agreement in order to attack Isreal, and you're *still* trying to defend them. Why? Is it really that hard for you to just accept that they are a nasty buch of people who just enjoy killing people?



I heard, from the news, that Hezballah kidnapped the Isreali soldiers because they wanted to exchange them for prisoners that the Isreali's had...which Hezballah claims Isreal is holding wrongly and without any reason.

I believe that this is the worst thing Isreal could have done. Obviously this will never solve anything, only increase hate towards Isreal, which in turn will come and bite Isreals *** in the end.

I also believe that Hezallah went about this in a very stupid way. How obvious is it that kidnapping someone's soldiers isnt going to get you anything, except an *** whooping?
Not until BOTH sides cease hostilities will this ever end... and I dont think the chances of that are very good at all.

Edited, Jul 21st 2006 at 12:04am EDT by Renlin
#56 Jul 21 2006 at 1:33 AM Rating: Excellent
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19,524 posts
gbaji wrote:
If armed robbers decide to hide out in my kids school, I just have to accept that my kids and all their friends will die. I mean, the cops have to blow up the school right?
Good point.

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#59 Jul 21 2006 at 7:37 AM Rating: Decent
YSU, I'm an American, and a Texan on top of that, so I'm mentally deficient to begin with, but the context of your objection has me all confuzzled.

The question:
Quote:
simply that they had knowingly targeted innocent civilians. Can you accept that as a true statement stripped of context?


The wording, while possibly a misunderstanding on my part, says to me that you're asking if Israel is sending bombs and shells specifically to destroy civilians. (The word "targeted" is what's not making sense to me if that's not what you're saying.)

IMHO, the most accurate way to state the situation would be this: Israel is striking what it believes to be terrorist strongholds, knowing that doing so on positions entrenched in the innocent population will lead to recognized collateral damage, i.e. civilians.

There's a difference b/w the two statements, in yours (stripped of context) it's saying that Israel is targeting the Lebanese populous randomly, while in mine is saying that they're targeting Hezbollah knowing that in doing so will result in civilian casualties.


Not that I agree with either view, mind you, but your statement as worded (and possibly misunderstood on my part, I'm a Texan after all) is false, from my perspective.
#61 Jul 21 2006 at 8:47 AM Rating: Decent
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King Nobby wrote:
gbaji wrote:
If armed robbers decide to hide out in my kids school, I just have to accept that my kids and all their friends will die. I mean, the cops have to blow up the school right?
Good point.

****

What about if those armed robbers are launching rockets a couple times a day into other schools killing a bunch of strangers' kids?
#63 Jul 21 2006 at 9:00 AM Rating: Decent
Youshutup wrote:
Israel has knowingly killed innocent civilians and continues to do so. Yes.


That version I understand.

But earlier you said they were "targeting" them, which is not the truth.
#65 Jul 21 2006 at 9:36 AM Rating: Good
Imaginary Friend
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16,112 posts
The Boomer Bible wrote:
THE SECOND BOOK OF APES, CALLED
APES


CHAPTER 1
When he had come upon
the earth, the ape was
naked and afraid. For comfort he
picked up a stick, chewed the
end to a point, and stuck it in a
nearby living thing.
2 When the living thing died,
transfixed by the stick, the ape
ate of its flesh and soon con-
ceived a great hunger for
death of other living things.
3 Thereupon the ape made
many pointed sticks and stuck
them into great multitudes of
other living things, including,
on occasion, other apes.

CHAPTER 2
For seven times seven gener-
ations of their race, the apes
stuck pointed sticks into seven
times s4even generations of other
living things.
2 And there were seven times
seven kinds of apes, and of this
number there were brown apes,
and black apes,
3 And green apes, and red apes,
and white apes, and yellow apes.
4 And there were small apes,
and tall apes, and wide apes, and
narrow apes, and thin apes, and
fat apes,
5 And swift apes, and slow..

The apes do unto one another APES

Apes, and strong apes, and weak
apes, and clever apes, and dull apes.
6 And of this number, all were killer
apes.

CHAPTER 3
And when seven times seven
generations had passed, the
land fell barren and living things
of all kinds died in great num-
bers from thirst and hunger and
from pointed sticks.
2 And as the living things grew
scarce in number, the apes be-
came afraid.
3 For if all other kinds of living
things died, there would be noth-
ing left to kill,
4 Except the other apes, all of
whom were killer apes, well
armed with pointed sticks.
5 And so it happened that the
apes banded together, like to
like, to keep the other apes from
killing them.
6 Brown apes joined together
with brown apes, black apes
with black apes,
7 Green apes with green apes,
red apes with red apes, white
apes with white apes, yellow
apes with yellow apes,
8 And small apes with small
apes, tall apes with tall apes,
wide apes with wide apes, nar-
row apes with narrow apes,
9 And thin apes with thin apes,
fat apes with fat apes, swift apes
with swift apes, slow apes with
slow apes,
10 And strong apes with strong
apes, weak apes with weak apes,
cleaver apes with clever apes, and
dull apes with dull apes.

CHAPTER 4
Thereupon bands of apes
turned upon other bands of
apes and transfixed one other
with many thousands of pointed
sticks.
2 And brown apes killed black
apes, even unto extinction.
3 Red apes slew green apes,
leaving none alive,
4 And likewise white apes
slew yellow apes, and tall apes
slew small apes,
5 And wide apes slew narrow
apes, and thin apes slew fat
apes,
6 And slow apes slew swift
apes, and weak apes slew strong
apes,
7 And clever apes slew all the
dull apes, and then the strong
apes, and the swift apes, and
the tall apes, and the white apes,
and the red apes, and the brown
apes,
8 Until the clever apes were
all alone on the earth, with the
exception of the other living
things and many, many trees
that could be turned into pointed
sticks.


____________________________
With the receiver in my hand..
#66 Jul 21 2006 at 10:00 AM Rating: Decent
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5,677 posts
Tool wrote:

Angels on the sideline,
Puzzled and amused.
Why did Father give these humans free will?
Now they’re all confused.

Don’t these talking monkeys know that
Eden has enough to go around?
Plenty in this holy garden, silly monkeys,
Where there’s one you're bound to divide it,
Right in two.

Angels on the sideline,
Baffled and confused.
Father blessed them all with reason.
And this is what they choose.

Monkey, killing monkey, killing monkey.
Over pieces of the ground.
Silly monkeys, give them thumbs, they forge a blade,
And where there's one they're bound to divide it
Right in two.

Monkey, killing monkey, killing monkey.
Over pieces of the ground.
Silly monkeys, give them thumbs, they make a club
And beat their brother down.

How they survive so misguided is a mystery.
Repugnant is a creature who would
Squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven,
Conscious of his fleeting time here.

Cut it divide it all right in two.
Cut it divide it all right in two.
Cut it divide it all right in two.
Cut it divide it all right in two.

Fight, over the clouds, over the earth, over sky.
Fight, over life, over blood, over air and light.
Over love, over sun, over nothing.
Fight, till they die.
Over what? Over lies and their end here.

Angels on the sideline again.
Been so long with patience and reason.
Angels on the sideline again.
Wondering when this tug of war will end.

Cut it divide it all right in two.
Cut it divide it all right in two.
Cut it divide it all right in two.
Right in two.
Right in two.


#67 Jul 21 2006 at 10:56 AM Rating: Decent
Youshutup wrote:
I admit it implies that I know the reasoning behind each attack.

I consider attacking something with purely civilian deaths with a negligible or uncertain direct affect on Hezbollah to be "targetting civilians".

It's semantics, I concede the point if it has stronger connotations for others.



if it's revealed that Israel is firing indiscriminatly to the point of "eh, they MIGHT be terrorists", or changes to "we're going to wipe Lebenon from the map", I'll be the first to listen to you say "I told you so." Smiley: grin
#68 Jul 21 2006 at 11:13 AM Rating: Good
Call me once Israeli soldiers start raping teens and burning the victims in cover-up attempts.

/Americaflex
#70 Jul 21 2006 at 12:53 PM Rating: Good
Imaginary Friend
*****
16,112 posts
The Boomer Bible wrote:
The Book of Beaks
OTHERWISE KNOWN AS THE BOOK OF BLOODY NOSES
{11 Chapters}

Chapter 6

At some point, the Eastern Roman Empire stopped being there,
2 But nobody knows when exactly,
3 Or why,
4 And nobody much cares.
5 After that, there was an Ottoman Empire,
6 Which was started by some Turks who believed in putting their feet up a lot,
7 For some reason.
8 By this time, the Hebrews had moved to Europe,
9 For some reason,
10 Completely abandoning their homeland,
11 Which was called Israel,
12 Or Canaan,
13 Or Palestine,
14 Or Zion,
15 Or the Land of Milk and Honey,
16 Or something or other,
17 Which you could look up,
18 If you cared.
19 When the Hebrews left wherever it was,
20 For whatever reason,
21 The Arabs moved in,
22 With lots of camels, and tents, and things on their heads,
23 for some reason,
24 Which was bound to cause trouble later,
25 Because no matter what anybody does in the middle east,
26 It's sure to cause lots of trouble later,
27 For some reason.

28 The Persians may also have been up to something about then,
29 Something involving peacocks,
30 But maybe not too.
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