Thermate in WTCFollow

Firstly, most of the quotes that you cited me for up there weren't my own. They were part of someone else's quote that I posted in full, but really for only a few selected lines. So I'll consider that for the most part a moot point.

If you support the idea that the Trade Centers were blown up by demolition charges, then me saying that you're advocating a massive government conspiracy really shouldn't be that out of line.

But I can see by the way that you responded that this is going to go the way of the last time this was argued, where you feign back and start ignoring points made against you. I already mentioned a few inconsistencies which you didn't address. If the government wished to use 9/11 as a way to scapegoat Iraq for an invasion for oil, then why even bother citing Osama Bin Laden and attacking Afghanistan? Isn't that completely illogical?

I'll be a little more specific about what I mean by the faulty risk/reward of the supposed government conspiracy to blow up the towers. An operation like this has MASSIVE risk, because of its horrific, large-scale, and public nature. Thousands of people between the government, airlines, media, rescue workers, and general citizenry would have to be privy to it for it run smoothly. Only one of these people would need to come forward to implicate the conspirators.

And what would all this risk be for? To invade Iraq? But the government's primary rationale for the war at the time of invasion was WMD's. Why would the government use this rationale if 9/11 was supposed to be their motivation? Wouldn't they have had a plan in place which tied 9/11 directly to Iraq in the first place? When the government finally did try to implicate Iraq in 9/11, they cited an indirect correlation about harboring terrorists, and ended up fumbling the ball when many people questioned it.

You expect me to believe that the government has enough confidence in its ability to control so many factors among so many people and groups that it enacted the most cunning conspiracy in our history, but then had the ham-handedness to not even utilize the supposed benefits to their advantage properly.

I mean, if the government is capable of what you think it is, then why would tens of thousands of "internet scholars" be able to debunk the conspiracy from the comfort of their living rooms? You alternate between thinking that the government is the greatest set of masterminds ever assembled, to a bunch of incompetents with itchy trigger fingers.

Edited, Jul 13th 2006 at 1:45pm EDT by Eske

Edited, Jul 13th 2006 at 1:47pm EDT by Eske

Interesting. I'll check up for more info on it. It could refute that part of my argument, but it's not clear cut evidence of conspiracy, either. And my other points still stand.



I don't think I need a dumbed-down version of the conspiracy theory, but thanks.

Edited, Jul 13th 2006 at 3:44pm EDT by Eske

You flunked chemistry didn't you?

By the way, you might want to look up what jet aircraft frames and engine mounts are made of. They just happen to contain high concentrations of manganese and aluminum manganese alloys.


So you think ignoring existing conditions entirely is sound scientific principal. Neat.


No, it was similar to what would be found in the outer skin of an aircraft. Not the frame and engine mounts.


Yet he and you both are willing to draw conclusions from the color of the aluminum in his experement. Thank you for proving my point beyond a shadow of a doubt.


which was itself within the debris field ratios for WTC 1 and 2.


Yup, then they failed due to extreme heat and aircraft impact damage, and the floors started collapsing, and would have cllapsed faster because those 80cm web joist connections are a shear point, and the outer walls retained their integrity until after the floors themselves were no longer attached


Gbaji got that one.


Sure there could have been. you ever hear what an aircraft tire sounds like when it explodes from being overheated? it's really loud. there were 6 of them in the center wing structural box, the strongest portion of the aircraft. I wouldn't be suprised if they made a noise or two. Then there are the hydraulic reserve tanks, several of which are heavy gauge steel, cook them off enough, they'll explode. And there were probably janitorial closets filled with aresol cleaners and paint cans, etc. There are lots of things that can explode in a building, none of the so called secondary explosions were loud enough to be heared outside the building, and none were recorded. Do i know what those people heared? no. But i'm pretty sure it wasn't a thermite charge, which has a sort of <hiss zip> sound when it burns rather than a loud boom.


I just gave you the basic data on what you would have to cut to have the top half of the building fall the way it did. Sure it might be a little rough, but there is a large margin of error in your favor with my estimate. You can wait on your crackpot friends though if it will make you feel any better


No, it's not. Not even close.



Occams razor. We know a plane hit the buildings, we know they collapsed shortly thereafter, we know that it would be absurdly difficult to get thermite charges in place, not to mention detonate them without running your onw control wires, or wirelessly which would have been picked up.

Besides it took you longer than 24 hours to put that together, so i win. Thanks for playing.

That's pretty much how I see it. The administration is capitalizing off of 9/11 profusely, no doubt. But that alone is not evidence of anything, especially when stacked up against the implausibility of deciding upon executing such a plan flawlessly, and the way the government has failed so publicly to properly rationalize our current military endeavors.

too much ogame I guess. meant radius.

Okay, I have to chime in as a no-kidding Chemist who has spent the better part of 10 years working with just the metal oxidizing reactions that are in question here. This is the funniest damn thread I've read in days! Everyone citing information which they claim is 'fact' and contradicting everyone else. Watching movies which claim the blow stuff up with the dreaded Thermite Bomb does not impart knowledge. Please try and at least learn a bit about the subject before trying to hing an argument on it. I've used thermite reactions in processes, and it's damn simple. If you want to take down a building, there are about a dozen ways to do this which would leave much less of a chemical signature. Please keep this going, I need more humor in my life!

Google Image search, actually.

I'm not a chemist nor an metallurgist nor an expert in physics. But, when someone says that molten aluminium can't be yellow or red, I know how to type "aluminum foundry" into a search bar

Punchy today, aren't we?

I'll admit that was just an off the cuff conjecture on my part. Maybe one or more of the aircraft that impacted had redlined their engines before impact and started melting the second stage vanes, maybe the goivernment planted the metal, or aliens, or governmental aliens, or feral chickens? So I dunno how it got there, but i'm guessing neither does desh the conspiracy drone.