Forum Settings
       
Reply To Thread

Thermate in WTCFollow

#27 Jul 10 2006 at 12:44 PM Rating: Excellent
Liberal Conspiracy
*******
TILT
Thanks, MF.

According to Popular Mechanics, the melting point of structural steel is ~2750F. So we have photographic evidence from an unbiased source (an aluminum foundry) that aluminum turns red hot -- literally -- at half the temperature it takes for structural steel to turn into a molten glob.

The irony here is that the usual conspiracy theory states that the fire in the WTC couldn't have been hot enough to melt the steel in the first place. Now we have molten globs of it falling from the building that "can't be aluminum" Smiley: dubious
____________________________
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#28 Jul 10 2006 at 1:11 PM Rating: Good
*****
10,755 posts
Jophiel wrote:
Thanks, MF.

According to Popular Mechanics, the melting point of structural steel is ~2750F. So we have photographic evidence from an unbiased source (an aluminum foundry) that aluminum turns red hot -- literally -- at half the temperature it takes for structural steel to turn into a molten glob.

The irony here is that the usual conspiracy theory states that the fire in the WTC couldn't have been hot enough to melt the steel in the first place. Now we have molten globs of it falling from the building that "can't be aluminum" Smiley: dubious


Yeah, but this guy personally talked to someone about stuff that was very mysterious. How do you explain that? Huh?
#29 Jul 10 2006 at 1:32 PM Rating: Good
*****
19,369 posts
NephthysWanderer the Charming wrote:
Jophiel wrote:
Thanks, MF.

According to Popular Mechanics, the melting point of structural steel is ~2750F. So we have photographic evidence from an unbiased source (an aluminum foundry) that aluminum turns red hot -- literally -- at half the temperature it takes for structural steel to turn into a molten glob.

The irony here is that the usual conspiracy theory states that the fire in the WTC couldn't have been hot enough to melt the steel in the first place. Now we have molten globs of it falling from the building that "can't be aluminum" Smiley: dubious


Yeah, but this guy personally talked to someone about stuff that was very mysterious. How do you explain that? Huh?


He's from BYU...in Utah...
#30 Jul 10 2006 at 1:35 PM Rating: Excellent
Avatar
*****
10,802 posts
NephthysWanderer the Charming wrote:
Yeah, but this guy personally talked to someone about stuff that was very mysterious. How do you explain that? Huh?


In a very moving, substantive way. Just like a Dan Brown novel. Oh wait, nevermemind.
#31 Jul 10 2006 at 1:39 PM Rating: Excellent
Lunatic
******
30,086 posts
Oswald acted alone.

____________________________
Disclaimer:

To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#32 Jul 10 2006 at 1:40 PM Rating: Good
*****
10,755 posts
MentalFrog wrote:
NephthysWanderer the Charming wrote:
Jophiel wrote:
Thanks, MF.

According to Popular Mechanics, the melting point of structural steel is ~2750F. So we have photographic evidence from an unbiased source (an aluminum foundry) that aluminum turns red hot -- literally -- at half the temperature it takes for structural steel to turn into a molten glob.

The irony here is that the usual conspiracy theory states that the fire in the WTC couldn't have been hot enough to melt the steel in the first place. Now we have molten globs of it falling from the building that "can't be aluminum" Smiley: dubious


Yeah, but this guy personally talked to someone about stuff that was very mysterious. How do you explain that? Huh?


He's from BYU...in Utah...


If I only had a pair of golden spectacles...that'd solve everything.
#33 Jul 10 2006 at 1:41 PM Rating: Excellent
Ministry of Silly Cnuts
*****
19,524 posts
Smasharoo wrote:
Oswald acted alone.
Soliloquy Theory?
____________________________
"I started out with nothin' and I still got most of it left" - Seasick Steve
#34 Jul 10 2006 at 1:43 PM Rating: Good
Nobby wrote:
Smasharoo wrote:
Oswald acted alone.
Soliloquy Theory?
/kneeslapper
#35 Jul 10 2006 at 1:48 PM Rating: Good
Quote:
Oswald acted alone.


Come on now. I was JFK who shot himself (with help from Lister, Kryton, and the Cat)
#36 Jul 10 2006 at 1:49 PM Rating: Good
Marilyn Monroe is Barbara Bush.
#37 Jul 10 2006 at 2:37 PM Rating: Excellent
Avatar
******
29,919 posts
So, if Dronadesh is using fear as a tool to promote a political viewpoint, does that make him a terrorist?
____________________________
Arch Duke Kaolian Drachensborn, lvl 95 Ranger, Unrest Server
Tech support forum | FAQ (Support) | Mobile Zam: http://m.zam.com (Premium only)
Forum Rules
#38 Jul 10 2006 at 2:49 PM Rating: Decent
**
301 posts
Quote:
So, if Dronadesh is using fear as a tool to promote a political viewpoint, does that make him a terrorist?


Let's just say that somebody's getting added to the no fly list....
#39 Jul 10 2006 at 3:42 PM Rating: Good
Imaginary Friend
*****
16,112 posts
Bush kidnapped the Lindburg baby
____________________________
With the receiver in my hand..
#40 Jul 10 2006 at 3:44 PM Rating: Good
*****
19,369 posts
Kelvyquayo wrote:
Bush kidnapped the Lindburg baby


Did someone personally tell you this?





Let me google my lawyer. He knows a guy, who knows a guy, who was involved.
#41 Jul 10 2006 at 3:46 PM Rating: Good
*****
10,755 posts
Kelvyquayo wrote:
Bush kidnapped the Lindburg baby


Twice.
#42 Jul 10 2006 at 3:48 PM Rating: Good
***
1,437 posts
MentalFrog wrote:
Kelvyquayo wrote:
Bush kidnapped the Lindburg baby


Did someone personally tell you this?
Let me google my lawyer. He knows a guy, who knows a guy, who was
involved.


make sure you do it from the gym
#43 Jul 10 2006 at 11:31 PM Rating: Default
Kaolian, according to Professor Jones the peer review included both a physicist and an engineer.

"My paper was peer-reviewed and accepted for publication before being made available on the Web with the editor's approval," Jones said. "The reviewers included a physicist and an engineer, I now understand. The review has not been shown to have been inappropriate and I believe it was appropriate."



Jophiel wrote:
According to Popular Mechanics, the melting point of structural steel is ~2750F. So we have photographic evidence from an unbiased source (an aluminum foundry) that aluminum turns red hot -- literally -- at half the temperature it takes for structural steel to turn into a molten glob.


Joph, all metals turn the same color at the same temperature (link) with the exception of aluminum, as described by Jones in his original paper on 9/11 -

"The approximate temperature of a hot metal is given by its color, quite independent of the composition of the metal. (A notable exception is aluminum, which due to low emissivity and high reflectivity appears silvery-gray in daylight conditions, at all temperatures whether in solid or liquid forms. Aluminum does incandesce like other metals, but faintly, so that in broad daylight conditions in air, it appears silvery-gray according to experiments done at BYU. [Jones, 2006])"

Additionally, the NIST report (from which the aluminum theory originates) sugests that the aluminum was around 650 degrees celsius, which isn't supported by the evidence because in the video the molten material was yellow to orange in color... whereas it would have to be deep red at 650 celsius.

Other important things to take into consideration is the molten metal found in the rubble at ground zero which can be seen to hold it's form at orange hot temperatures. Then of course there's the sample of the metalic residue that Jones tested which is primarily made up of iron along with sulpher, potasium, and manganese which are by-products of thermate.

Picture of molten metal at ground zero.

Footage of thermite.

Edited, Jul 11th 2006 at 12:46am EDT by Dronadesh
#44 Jul 10 2006 at 11:38 PM Rating: Default
Oh ya, and there was molten metal found in the rubble of WTC7 which wasn't even hit by an airplane (which was the supposed source for the aluminum).


Jophiel wrote:

The irony here is that the usual conspiracy theory states that the fire in the WTC couldn't have been hot enough to melt the steel in the first place. Now we have molten globs of it falling from the building that "can't be aluminum"


Perhaps you didn't notice, but nobody claimed that the molten material pouring out of the building was purely melted steel, the claim is that it was thermite.


Edited, Jul 11th 2006 at 12:43am EDT by Dronadesh
#45 Jul 10 2006 at 11:59 PM Rating: Excellent
Liberal Conspiracy
*******
TILT
Don't quote Jones to me when you're trying to defend what Jones said. Find me other non-biased (hopefully having nothing at all to do with 9/11) which support your theories.

You said that aluminum doesn't get red/orange when heated. It does. In fact, it glows yellow-red and is molten at a much lower temperature than steel and it does so at a lower temperature than jet fuel is capable of burning at (~1500F). So I have to ask myself, which is more likely: that the aluminum alloy of the aircraft, trapped in a fire of jet fuel and building debris, reached ~1300F before spilling out? Or that someone secretly planted thermate charges throughout the WTC and the government tried to cover it up?

In this instance, Occum's Razor is made out of yellow-hot aircraft grade aluminum.
____________________________
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#46 Jul 11 2006 at 12:02 AM Rating: Decent
Jophiel wrote:
Don't quote Jones to me when you're trying to defend what Jones said. Find me other non-biased (hopefully having nothing at all to do with 9/11) which support your theories.
You must be new here.
#47 Jul 11 2006 at 12:23 AM Rating: Excellent
Liberal Conspiracy
*******
TILT
More red-hot aluminum

Note that this was heated in a small foundry in some guy's garage. He also states that he is leaving it to cool for several minutes (hence it becoming silvery -- you can also see the glow from inside the foundry itself). Several minutes. And it is red hot in good lighting.

Somehow I can believe that molten aluminum, fresh off the burning plane, might still be yellow-hot.

Behold! Someone pouring molten aluminum. What color is that stuff as it pours off and before it hits the surface and spreads out?

More molten aluminum -- Buy a Combat® Solid Boron Nitride cruicible for your light metal needs today!
____________________________
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#48 Jul 11 2006 at 12:37 AM Rating: Default
Jopiel wrote:
Don't quote Jones to me when you're trying to defend what Jones said. Find me other non-biased (hopefully having nothing at all to do with 9/11) which support your theories.


I wasn't trying to defend his position but rather clarify it because I feel that he does a good job defending himself.

Jopiel wrote:
You said that aluminum doesn't get red/orange when heated. It does. In fact, it glows yellow-red and is molten at a much lower temperature than steel and it does so at a lower temperature than jet fuel is capable of burning at (~1500F). So I have to ask myself, which is more likely: that the aluminum alloy of the aircraft, trapped in a fire of jet fuel and building debris, reached ~1300F before spilling out? Or that someone secretly planted thermate charges throughout the WTC and the government tried to cover it up?


You're right, I did say that aluminum doesn't turn red/orange and I was mistaken. It does turn colors but it can't be seen in daylight conditions.

However you also made a mistaken claim that aluminum turns colors at lower temperatures than steel, which is inaccurate. It does melt faster, which is why NIST included that theory to explain the said footage.

As far as occums razor is concerned, I find it esier to believe that thermite was used because proffesor jones found thermite on a sample of the original steel. Thermite accounts for the molten pools of metal wtc 1 2 and 7, as steel fueled by thermite could retain heat for long periods of time as did these pools of molten material, and since thermite was probably present within the building then this material coming out of the side of the building was most likely thermite. The color also indicates thermite as previously explained, and there is a large volume of the material pouring from a single location which would be most simply explained as a thermite (thermate) charge planted in that location rather than having vast amounds of airplane debris gather at one corner of the building and pour profusely from a single hole in the wall. All of the evidence fits perfectly with the theory of thermite, and the theory of aluminum melting into a corner of the building from jet fuel fires seems pretty far fetched to me. (I'd like to see if in any other plane crash the metal from the plane formed pools of molten metal)

As far as the feasability of 9/11 being a false flag governmental operation compared to the feasability that a small group of low budget highjackers attacked the wtc and pentagon, that's a whole other conversation.



Edited, Jul 11th 2006 at 3:07am EDT by Dronadesh
#49 Jul 11 2006 at 12:43 AM Rating: Default
Jophiel wrote:
More red-hot aluminum

Note that this was heated in a small foundry in some guy's garage. He also states that he is leaving it to cool for several minutes (hence it becoming silvery -- you can also see the glow from inside the foundry itself). Several minutes. And it is red hot in good lighting.

Somehow I can believe that molten aluminum, fresh off the burning plane, might still be yellow-hot.

Behold! Someone pouring molten aluminum. What color is that stuff as it pours off and before it hits the surface and spreads out?

More molten aluminum -- Buy a Combat® Solid Boron Nitride cruicible for your light metal needs today!


Jones' claim is that aluminum doesn't appear molten in bright daylight. If you could find a picture of aluminum looking similar to the material on the WTC video but in broad daylight, I would consider that significant proof. (it would have to be apparent that the sun was shining and that the material was actually aluminum)

More molten aluminum
#50 Jul 11 2006 at 12:46 AM Rating: Decent
I would also like to add that different jetfuels burn at different tempratures. Most jetfuels are basically high-octane diesel fuel. JP-4, JP-5, and JP-8 for just a few examples are all different fuels, as such have different flash points, and burning tempratures. Much like gasoline that you buy at the pump shares the similar characteristics, 85, 87, 89, 91, and 93(there may be more than that but that is all I have ever seen) would all have different flash points and max burning tempratures.
#51 Jul 11 2006 at 12:51 AM Rating: Excellent
Liberal Conspiracy
*******
TILT
I'm not denying that there's silvery aluminum. You were denying that aluminum gets yellow-red when heated. It very obviously can.
Quote:
I would consider that significant proof
Luckily, I'm not really trying to prove anything to you. I'm merely pointing out why you haven't proven anything to us. Your premise revolved around the point that it couldn't have been aluminum pouring from the building due to its color. You haven't made a very convincing argument for it.
____________________________
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
Reply To Thread

Colors Smileys Quote OriginalQuote Checked Help

 

Recent Visitors: 368 All times are in CST
Anonymous Guests (368)