The carrot and the stickFollow

Though in this case, it's more the carrot and the Big Bad **** ***** With Metal Spikes.

On the one hand, Hamas seems closer to recognising Israel, albeit implicitly:



On the other, Israel is launching the tanks in Gaza, and capturing a third of their governement:



So near, and yet so far...

Recognizing a nation's right to exist = Good
Kidnapping soldiers from said nation = Bad

Makes sense.

I don't think there was ever any chance at a peaceful resolution. Way too much religious fanaticism on both sides.

In that case, someone get on the Horn of Gondor and call in Legolas to pop a few arrows in the back of it's big grey neck.

Do you guys think we'll see a peaceful solution to this problem in our lifetime? Like a proper Paletinian state at peace with itself and Israel?

Sure, as soon as Isreal moves to Angola.

Anti-Semite!!

I was joking Deb. I once mentioned to Smash that it was practically impossible to hold a view sympathetic to Palestine in this country without being labeled an anti-semite, so now I make it a point to call him that whenever he expresses that point of view (with which I do happen to agree).

I know its a complicated issue, but bringing the religious dimension into it devalues everything.

That'd be true if people hadn't built Mosques on top of Churches that were built on top of Temples.

/agree

first thing in a long time smash has stated i agree 100% with.

as to a peaceful solution in our lifetime, i doubt it. this has been going on in one form or an other since the creation of islam and doubt it will ever end.

And even worse when some 80% of them didn't originally live in the area at all!

Quick history lesson: The majority of those who we today call "Palestinians" were in fact living in areas of Eqypt, Syria, and Jordan when the UN established the nation of Isreal. The actual people living on that actual land at that actual time were a mix of Jewish, Christian, and Muslims. It wasn't until after the UN dumped truckfulls of Jews and those Jews brought their money and their western ways and irrigated the desert and made it capable of supporting more people that folks suddenly appeared out of the desert wanting to live there. This exodus from the surrounding nations was supported officially by those countries (they didn't really want the Palestinians in their countries anyway). In many cases, they were forcibly pushed out of Egypt, Syria, and Jordan and tossed into the new country, specifically to up the number of Muslims in the region so they could create a religious conflict where one didn't really exist before.

And that's not counting the percent of Palestinians who've become Palestinians just since the war in 73 which created the UN run refugee camps. Cause if you're poor and you head into the camps, you get free food and money from the UN! Those refugee camps have literally the highest population growth *(by a good and seemingly miraculous margin!) of any area on earth. So either there's something magical in the food, or there's a whole lot of people showing up to get whatever they can from the UN by being recorded as a "Palestinian".


It *is* a very complicated issue. But the first notion you need to get out of your heads is that this has anything to do with some thousands of years old conflict. It really doesn't. The issues between the Muslims and Jews, and the Jews and Palestinians specifically really only go back less then a century. It has far more to do with the setting of national borders in the region and the displacement of tribal cultures then anything to do with religion. It's just that in this case, the nation happens to be held by westernized Jews, and the tribe happens to be the Palestinians.

If Iraq was controlled by Jews, I'm pretty sure a lot more people would have heard of the "plight of the Kurds" long before the 91 gulf war. The religious factor is really only after the fact. It's simplistic to assume that because there's a religious difference, that must be the root cause of the conflict. However, as I pointed out, the issue the Kurds in Iraq have had to face over the last 6 decades or so are virtually identical to those of the Palestinians. You just didn't hear about them because they weren't of a different religion. It's literally a case of the preconceptions reinforcing themselves.

Just had the feeling to cut in here (I just read the Asylum's threads) but I had to ask... is it 1/4 chopped down there?

and probably because Iraq isn't the West's sqeeky clean innocent offsping while the rest of the countries middle east are our delinquent step kids.


also the fact that we armed Israel to the teeth.