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#27 Jun 16 2006 at 1:17 PM Rating: Good
Thank bob my wife doesn't freak out about having to bottle feed our baby. She does not and has never felt bad that Zak has had to eat out of a bottle. She's only happy that he eats well and sleeps well.

Of course she would have preferred to breast feed, and did for a few days, but her milky dried right up...nothing she could do about it. Sh[Aqua][/Aqua]it happens. Is she a bad parent? Hell no. But we aren't poor and living in a 3rd world country either.

Edited, Jun 16th 2006 at 2:18pm EDT by Frakkor
#28 Jun 16 2006 at 1:18 PM Rating: Good
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DSD wrote:
But again, what about those poor women who physically can not produce enough milk to keep their child satiated? Right off the bat, without doing anything wrong they are being condemned.


Yep, that is another thing. It isn't their fault if their body (for some reason I don't know.... i'm not going to pretend to be an expert on woman and breast-feeding and such Smiley: lol) physically can't produce enough milk. It isn't fair at all to them, since they pretty much have no other option.
#29 Jun 16 2006 at 4:12 PM Rating: Good
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DSD wrote:
And Flea, Bob forbid you meet a La Leche if you are forced to use a bottle.
I could tell them to f-off in their native language!
#30 Jun 16 2006 at 4:13 PM Rating: Good
I tried forum=la to look up some MILFs but to no avail. Smiley: frown
#31 Jun 16 2006 at 4:13 PM Rating: Good
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video tape it if you do kk?
#32 Jun 16 2006 at 5:16 PM Rating: Decent
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Momma got a squeezebox ,Daddy never sleeps at night..........
#33 Jun 16 2006 at 5:18 PM Rating: Good
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johnnny the Silent wrote:
Momma got a squeezebox ,Daddy never sleeps at night..........
WHO ftw

+1 Johnny
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#34 Jun 16 2006 at 5:39 PM Rating: Decent
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While I agree that breastfeeding isn't an option for some women, for many others, very early difficulties in breastfeeding simply make them give up altogether because it's just too much work--even though a lot of those difficulties CAN be overcome. There's just not much incentive to overcome them, and a lot of disincentive.

I do think it's ridiculous that the government thinks it's sufficient to just wag a shaming finger at moms who use formula. Let's talk about encouragement and subsidies for companies that put in nursing/pumping lounges and give nursing mother's longer and more frequent paid breaks for expressing, rather than forcing them to try to squeeze it all out in two short 10-minute breaks in a dim, bacteria-filled restroom stall. Let's talk about encouragement and incentives for restaurants whose waitstaff don't harass mothers who attempt to nurse their children at the table (my favorite response of all time to this from a nursing mother to a waitress who was ******** on the behalf of other patrons -- "My son will eat his dinner in the bathroom right after you eat yours there.")

The fact is, thanks in large part to the US's absurd puritanical roots, it is an extremely unfriendly environment for breastfeeding mothers. Because breastfeeding involves--omgzorz!!--a NAKED BREAST, breastfeeding has traditionally been treated as a shameful activity which needs to be kept out of sight and not mentioned. This gives few places--whether they are workplaces, recreational outlets, or retail facilities--any reason to provide accomodation for nursing mothers.

Frankly, I think the best way to encourage more mothers to overcome obstacles against breastfeeding it to remind them of the COST of formula. At least $1500 can be saved in the first SIX MONTHS by breastfeeding. My friend has a daughter that will be 1 year old in a couple weeks, and in the first few months they had a lot of trouble nursing, due in large part to a bad case of thrush that was quite painful for both mother and daughter, and the baby having trouble with reflux as well. My friend got to the point where she started each breastfeeding session with a pep-talk for herself and her daughter, which went something to the effect of, "If you breastfeed for at least one year, we can afford private college for you. If we have to switch to formula, you're stuck with a state school."



Edited, Jun 16th 2006 at 6:50pm EDT by Ambrya
#35 Jun 16 2006 at 5:43 PM Rating: Decent
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Jophiel wrote:
When my sister was born (back in 1971), my father told my mother that he wanted her bottlefed because breastfeeding was unnatural Smiley: dubious


For a long time in the 19th and early to mid 20th centuries, OBs were telling women that breastfeeding was "unsanitary" and therefore should be avoided. This fit in perfectly with knocking the mother out to give birth, shaving the pubic hair, and performing routine episiotomies that were frequently sewn up with an extra stitch or two thrown in to make things tighter and more pleasant for the husband (called the "husband's knot") but which condemned the wife to a lifetime of painful intercourse.

There's a reason I'm becoming a midwife--the things the practice of obstetrics has done to make childbirth as needlessly traumatic as possible are just astonishing.

#36 Jun 16 2006 at 6:23 PM Rating: Excellent
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Ambrya wrote:
Frankly, I think the best way to encourage more mothers to overcome obstacles against breastfeeding it to remind them of the COST of formula. At least $1500 can be saved in the first SIX MONTHS by breastfeeding. [...] My friend got to the point where she started each breastfeeding session with a pep-talk for herself and her daughter, which went something to the effect of, "If you breastfeed for at least one year, we can afford private college for you. If we have to switch to formula, you're stuck with a state school."
On $3000, I think the little girl has a future at community college Smiley: dubious
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#37 Jun 16 2006 at 6:41 PM Rating: Decent
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Jophiel wrote:
On $3000, I think the little girl has a future at community college Smiley: dubious


$3000 in an investment account for 18 years, with more invested each year thereafter? If they invested $3000 the first year and $1000 thereafter and got a consistent rate of 5%, they'd have $36,000. That's not including scholarships (pretty much a given considering the kid's genetics) and the fact that she comes from a family where the grandparents tend to invest in the child's college education as well.

So, in my friend's situation, the logic is fairly sound. And hey, if it gets her through an ordeal where her nipples are constantly itching and burning due to the thrush yeast, more power to her.





Edited, Jun 16th 2006 at 7:41pm EDT by Ambrya
#38 Jun 16 2006 at 6:54 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Let's talk about encouragement and incentives for restaurants whose waitstaff don't harass mothers who attempt to nurse their children at the table (my favorite response of all time to this from a nursing mother to a waitress who was ******** on the behalf of other patrons -- "My son will eat his dinner in the bathroom right after you eat yours there.")


That's horrible. Although I do not like public breast feeding just due to the fact it creeps me out, I would by no means make a woman leave a public area. Maybe if the breast was fully exposed, but I notice a lot of mothers throw a blanket over most and the child and I feel that is more than acceptable.

Don't like seeing someone breast feed? You have a whole nother 359 degrees of view, so use it.
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#39 Jun 16 2006 at 7:09 PM Rating: Good
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So that's what the "lactation room" down the hall is for...
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#40 Jun 16 2006 at 7:33 PM Rating: Decent
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gbaji wrote:
So that's what the "lactation room" down the hall is for...

Yeah, like the cow milkers in a dairy farm. You know, gates, troughs, octopus-like mechanical suckers, the whole deal.
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#41 Jun 16 2006 at 7:53 PM Rating: Good
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Nobby you must have left the nipples in the boiling water too long. Try just using a hot washcloth next time. Smiley: wink2

Back in the 80's when I breastfeed in public, I found the people who objected the most were older women who most likely used formula.

Single men where the most supportive and understood that the best way to quiet a baby was to stick a boobie in it's mouth.

I did use a blanket most of the time, but my middle daughter didn't like it and would pull the blanket off, so I ended up packing a bottle of formula when we went out. She was the only one I ended up giving formula early. Was only able to breastfeed her for 10 months, while I breastfeed her sisters for 14 and 30 months.

My oldest has a very nice set of nursing tops, and you can barely notice her breastfeeding the baby. She was finally able to ween my grandson, when she had to tell him the baby inside her needed the milk and gave him chocolate milk instead.

She far too easy with the kids and they know it.

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#42 Jun 16 2006 at 8:20 PM Rating: Decent
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ElneClare wrote:
Single men where the most supportive and understood that the best way to quiet a baby was to stick a boobie in it's mouth.


Works on married men too Smiley: grin
#43 Jun 16 2006 at 8:35 PM Rating: Default
Quote:
So that's what the "lactation room" down the hall is for...


Is it really all that, disturbing?

Quote:
Works on married men too


And, how.

And where's the Nickname thread when ya need it? Thank you for reminding me that as a child growing up some of my nicknames were Boob-iss, Boob-eee, etc., like the capital letter B, front, front, back and forth.
#44 Jun 17 2006 at 9:39 AM Rating: Excellent
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Ambrya wrote:
$3000 in an investment account for 18 years, with more invested each year thereafter? If they invested $3000 the first year and $1000 thereafter and got a consistent rate of 5%, they'd have $36,000.
Throwing an extra $17,000 into the pile isn't remotely the same thing as sending someone to college on the money saved from breastfeeding, now is it? Smiley: tongue
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#45 Jun 17 2006 at 9:51 AM Rating: Excellent
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Jophiel wrote:
Ambrya wrote:
$3000 in an investment account for 18 years, with more invested each year thereafter? If they invested $3000 the first year and $1000 thereafter and got a consistent rate of 5%, they'd have $36,000.
Throwing an extra $17,000 into the pile isn't remotely the same thing as sending someone to college on the money saved from breastfeeding, now is it? Smiley: tongue


It is if she breast feeds him til he's 18!

Why do you hate motherhood? Smiley: mad
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#46 Jun 17 2006 at 10:03 AM Rating: Excellent
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The real money sink in child-rearing is in disposable diapers vs cloth. You could bottlefeed your spawn on Cristal and not spend as much as you do on soaking it up from the other end.
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#47 Jun 17 2006 at 10:21 AM Rating: Decent
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I was blessed with cloth. 15 years later when we had this laundry hamper full of white cloths and I was washing my car with it I ask my mom where all these 18in by 12in cloths came from...

"Oh, those used to be on your ***. Those are called diapers."

It sickened me ever since. Even though they had been washed a million times since I last used them...
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#48 Jun 17 2006 at 7:40 PM Rating: Excellent
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Elne wrote:
while I breastfeed her sisters for 14 and 30 months.


Whoa.
#49 Jun 17 2006 at 7:44 PM Rating: Good
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Sir Exodus, Eater of Cheese wrote:
Elne wrote:
while I breastfeed her sisters for 14 and 30 months.


Whoa.
BITTY!

Ask a Brit to explain
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#50 Jun 17 2006 at 11:18 PM Rating: Excellent
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My mom formula fed me and my brother. She claims it was because she wanted my dad to be able to bond with us but I have this suspicion that she didn't want saggy boobs. It was really weird to have my mom peeking over my shoulders with my daughter. She wanted to watch because she had no idea what it was like. They just gave her a pill after birth to stop the milk production and that was it.

About this whole formula is evil stuff, what a total crock of sh*t. I'm all for breastfeeding and can talk for hours about it with mothers-to-be but I also know firsthand why a lot of women stop if not for production reasons. That would be:

THE FARKING PAIN

I'd spent 9 months agonizing over how horribly painful birth was going to be and 1 week after it I was thinking, ok WTF why does no one ever tell you how horrifyingly painful breastfeeding is the first week? I swear, I thought I was going to pass out everytime she latched on. My nipples bled, stung, burned, weird bubbles of flesh kept popping up, and skin was coming off like crazy. And boy did that lanolin lotion do jack for me. When I asked about the bleeding I was assured it's ok for the baby to ingest some blood. It was then I knew... I knew that all those f*cking breastfeeding coaches knew just what I was in for!!

But once I hit the "pain peak" on day 7, it became the wonderful experience all the books described it as. (Can't say I've ever had one of these so-called "breastfeeding orgasms" though.) I am a huge breastfeeding fan, but anyone who tells me they stopped because they couldn't take the pain won't hear any criticism from me. I actually complained to my OB a few months later and she told me that some women are forced to stop because their nipples actually crack in half. *SHUDDER*

I've been pretty lucky both times with production (I have almost 70 bags in the freezer). I actually looked up on how to donate breastmilk to premies but I decided not to after I found out the minimum donation is 150 oz. Anyone still thinking about whether to and has the chance to pump at work really should do it. The money issue is huge. Formula costs like a car payment already.
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#51 Jun 17 2006 at 11:32 PM Rating: Excellent
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breastfeeding orgasms ftw
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