I hate Ann CoulterFollow

My statement makes no assumptions about whether she did in fact not want to at the time. It's only talking about the appearance of a date rape situation as it would be viewed by a third party. You may assume she did not consent to sex at the time if you want. It's not prohibited by my statement. Nor is it assumed.


Remember. I was just talking about how it appears to a third party, since it's a third party that will have to determine if charges should be filed. Thus, all that third party knows is that the woman had sex with somebody and says that she didn't want to. Why is this so hard for you to grasp? I'm making what should be a very obvious and simple point. The third party has no way to know whether what she's claiming is true or not. It can only proceed on what is claimed, and what physical evidence exists.

Is the sex in your definition consentual or not? Or are you saying it doesn't matter if the sex is consentual?

Here.. pick one of these:
(A) What date rape is is when a woman has non-consentual sex with somebody but says she really didn't want to.
(B) What date rape is is when a woman has consentual sex with somebody but says she really didn't want to.
(C) What date rape is is when a woman has sex, consentual or not, with somebody but says she really didn't want to.

Because I'm guessing that 99% of the people you'd ask would pick (A). We can start a poll if you'd like

Are you going to answer or no? You only need to enter a single letter. No need for paragraphs. Just one letter.

Edited, Jun 14th 2006 at 11:42pm EDT by Jophiel

That's your answer Joph. I'll repeat it again. I was talking about how it's defined from the perspective of a third party. We can't know if she actually wanted to have sex at the time or not. We can only know that she wasn't forced, had sex, and now claims that she didn't want to.

Get it? Man. It really is like pulling teeth.

Everyone "gets it" you fuking buffoon. See here's a ltitle tip for the future. When you continue to post the same thing over and over and people continue to disagre with you, it's not that they don't understand, it's that you're wrong.

Try not to cry when reading that. In fact, just block it from memory.

Also, how the hell would this differ from absolutely anyhting involving two people? How is it even approaching unique?

Edited, Jun 14th 2006 at 11:48pm EDT by Smasharoo

Of course it happens, but it's not rape. Nor date rape. Nor any other type of sexual assualt.

It's calling "filing false charges". The exact same crime as if I called the cops on my mooching neighbor and lied about his axe.

If we heard only the part of the story where the girl accuses the boy of rape, would we call it date rape? Of course. Why? Not because of lack of evidence. Not because of lack of bruises. Not because she may have changed her mind later. We'd call it "date rape" because the crime she was accusing him of what rape and he knew her. Same as if I only told you a story about how my neighbor threatened me with an axe -- we'd call it a story about a robbery. If I told you a story about how my garage was set on fire by vandals, we'd call it arson even if I had secretly lit the fire myself.

For someone who keeps saying "it's a simple concept", you're having an awful lot of trouble with this.

*cough*

Of course, if you'd read the sentence right after the one that keeps getting qouted, you'd already have known the correct answer:




It not like I didn't clarify this earlier Joph. It was in the next freaking sentence of the post I made.

I'm still waiting for you to give me an example of a case in which a woman does not want to have sex, is not forced to have sex, has sex, then charges her partner with rape in which we as a third party can possibly differentiate this from any other normal couple having sex...

And if not, then how is my description of date rape inaccurate?

Your definition of date rape is absolutely unique to you. To everyone else it means: nonconsensual sex between a man and a woman who are acquainted prior to the act.

Insisting on another definition and arguing from that is just a straw man.

I say this with all due respect: gbaji, you are either the best troll I've ever seen, or a profoundly disturbed individual. Possibly both.

Eh? You've proven nothing. You've avoided every question I've asked though.


Again. I was making a specific point in a specific thread. Taking my comments out of context and ignoring the 12 other paragraphs in the post is pretty obnoxious.


Look. You don't believe that the situation I'm defining is significant? Ok. Read this

A few salient bits:



Ah. Can we accept that "phychological pressure" amounts to "talking her into it"?



Ok. Shouldn't we be a tiny bit concerned when 73% of the women who claimed they'd been "forced into sex" by dates or boyfriends didn't consider it rape? Either we've got a heck of a lot of women in denial, or there's something wrong with the criteria we're using to define these as rape.

Yeah. I think that's a problem. Could it be that these are those exact situations I'm talking about? The ones where maybe she wanted to have sex, maybe she didn't, but she definately knew after the fact that she didn't, so she calls it rape (or someone calls it rape for her in 73% of the cases). Yeah. I think that's a problem...

And finally. This one:



If we were wondering what the rate of "physical force" to "psychological pressure" was, now we know. About 2 to 1... I'm beginning to understand why 73% of the women didn't think they'd been raped. That is, until some psychologist with an agenda told them they had...

Got it. So she "has sex with someone but says she didn't really want to"

Thanks for playing...

Got it. So she "has sex with someone but says she didn't really want to"

Thanks for playing...

Right. Hi, that's the definition of "Rape".

Which word did you find confusin, maybe I can help. Is it "with"?

Where i come from the word 'date' was a slang for '****** As in "That bloke needs a kick up the date'.

Imagine my confusion when Gbaji confesses to being a 'date rape expert'!

Because I was making a specific point of showing how the "definition" of date rape as it is popularly bandied about does not match the "actual" use of the term in the sense of how it changed legal cases and charges being filed.

So yeah, my description of date rape obviously does not match the common one. That's the point I was making when I posted it. That despite the very simplistic description, what it ends out being is a method by which the burden of evidence prior to a charge of sexual assualt is lowered to "she says she didn't want to".

This can be seen easily by comparing the definitions these sites use and the actual cases that derive from the inclusion of the social idea of "date rape" into our legal system. It's not like the cases of a passed out girl being assaulted wasn't rape before. It was. What we didn't have prior to "date rape" as a term appearing was women charging their dates with rape with zero evidence to support them being taken seriously.


I think the problem is that everyone's looking at this from an absolute perspective. You keep thinking "but if she really wasn't consentual, then it was rape". Well, that's true. However, it's not "provable rape". My point is that in any other area of the law, no judge will issue an arrest warrant, nor any DA file a charge unless there's some evidence beyond one person simply making a claim. I was trying to point that out. That the largest legal change occuring as a result of "date rape" is not an increase in women who are physically assaulted by their dates or boyfriends filing charges, but an increase in women filing charges in cases where there is zero evidence to support their claim, and the DAs and judges going along with it, all to the detriment of the poor guy who got unlucky enough to **** off the wrong woman.

Sure. Many of them are also false charges. But my description does not assume that either way. It only assumes that there's no evidence other then her word that an assault occured.

My point is that in any other area of the law, no judge will issue an arrest warrant, nor any DA file a charge unless there's some evidence beyond one person simply making a claim.

Crack still cheap and plentifull in San Diego I see.

You should be forced to ahve to tell Ruben Carter this face to face in a boxing ring.