Forum Settings
       
1 2 3 Next »
Reply To Thread

Waste of time.Follow

#52 Jun 07 2006 at 11:31 PM Rating: Good
Encyclopedia
******
35,568 posts
Jophiel wrote:
The point is that they are part of the package because you are married. You don't sign a bunch of special power of attorney and inheritance documents when you get wed, you just get wed. You don't get a briefcase full of papers stating that you have this that or the other power. You simply have them as the married partner. Likewise, when you get divorced, your ex-spouse does not retain power of attorney et al because you are no longer married, not because you specifically dissolved those civil arrangements. Therefore, if I entered a state where I was no longer married, I would lose those benefits because... wait for it... I'm no longer married.


That's because we tie both things together. The act of a legally recognized marriage automatically binds both partners to a set of pre-defined civil contracts. If that were not the case, then prenuptual agreements would not legally work. The fact that they do means that there is a set of default civil contracts entered into when you marry, and if you want something different, you have to get a separate contract that overrides the default one.

The process of a divorce similarly disolves not just the legal status, but the civil contracts as well. Actually, it doesn't disolve them all either, since parental rights aren't disolved, nor are parental responsibilities. Clearly, the legal status of marriage and the civil contracts associated with marriage are two separate things. We just tend to lump them together by default, so we tend to forget that they really are separate legal constructs.

Quote:
And why do those benefits carry over from state to state? Because, as I mentioned, states have an obligation to acknowledge contracts formed in other states as valid. There's nothing magical about the "civil contract aspects" (as you call them) of marriage except that a bunch of people get flustered that homosexuals may call themselves "married". You yourself say that the same benefits can be gained via other legal channels and would be considered valid from state to state to state. If I sign the papers to give my homosexual partner power of attorney over me, it holds solid when we go to Nebraska or Utah or Vermont. So why should having the same "civil contract aspects" be a burden upon state sovereignty if I gain them under the auspice of marriage? Again, the only reasons to complain about it are strictly moralistic ones.


They wouldn't be. That's the point I'm arguing here Joph. The "burden" isn't in the civil contracts. I'm not burdened one bit if a gay couple have joint power of attorney, or joint inheritance, or joint guardianship of their children. I *am* burdened if that couple gets to file their taxes under one of the "married" collumns. I *am* burdened if I live in a state that provides home loan discounts to married couples and a gay couple claims that discount. I *am* burdened if I live in a state that provides any sort of financial benefit to married couples. In all of those cases, I'm paying for those things. Every penny that a gay couple does not pay in taxes because they are married is a penny that will have to be paid by someone else. That's a burden the public pays based on specific assumptions about what a marriag is, and why they may need to provide those benefits.


That's what I'm trying to get at here. There is a distinct difference between the civil contract of marriage and the legal status. One is simply between the parties of the contract. The other is provided by the state and comes at a cost to the entire people of that state. Thus, it seems very reasonable to look at those two aspects of marriage separately when considering gay marriage.
____________________________
King Nobby wrote:
More words please
#53 Jun 07 2006 at 11:48 PM Rating: Decent
Lunatic
******
30,086 posts

The other is provided by the state and comes at a cost to the entire people of that state. Thus, it seems very reasonable to look at those two aspects of marriage separately when considering gay marriage.


Mainly to homophobic white guys who like to shower together.

But, ok.

____________________________
Disclaimer:

To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#54 Jun 08 2006 at 12:08 AM Rating: Excellent
Liberal Conspiracy
*******
TILT
gbaji wrote:
That's because we tie both things together. The act of a legally recognized marriage automatically binds both partners to a set of pre-defined civil contracts.
Erm... which was the point? If you're married, you have those benefits. If you're not married, you do not have that automatic binding. Short of making married couples sign a sheaf of paperwork covering all those contracts, they would not exist in a state in which you were not licensed (to use your 'solution').
Quote:
Actually, it doesn't disolve them all either, since parental rights aren't disolved, nor are parental responsibilities.
Parental responsibilites aren't part of being married, per se. Unmarried couples who have children are held to the same legal dealings regarding their children, custody, etc as married people. The two are seperate facets of the law although you usually knock out the custody issue in the process of the divorce dealings.
Quote:
The other is provided by the state and comes at a cost to the entire people of that state
No more so than by the comity shown between states in custody or adoption law. Which does directly affect taxes and social services and the rest of it. Now, I'm sure you'll say "But those are for the wee children who are our future!". Which is true but then the obvious solution is to provide those tax bonuses/incentives/etc to the parents of dependant children regardless of whether they are gay or straight. Really, there's no especially good reason to provide tax bonuses in whatever form to two people just because they happen to cohabitate, anyway.
____________________________
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
1 2 3 Next »
Reply To Thread

Colors Smileys Quote OriginalQuote Checked Help

 

Recent Visitors: 393 All times are in CST
Anonymous Guests (393)