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#1 May 30 2006 at 9:15 AM Rating: Good
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No data, no tickey

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EU court nixes giving air data to U.S. EU court nixes giving air data to U.S.
By AOIFE WHITE, AP Business Writer


BRUSSELS, Belgium - The European Union's highest court ruled Tuesday that the EU acted illegally when it struck a deal giving U.S. authorities personal details of airline passengers in a bid to fight terrorism.

Under an agreement reached in 2004, European airlines are compelled to turn over 34 pieces of information about each passenger — including name, address and credit card details — within 15 minutes of departure for the United States.

The United States says such measures are required to help fight terrorism. But the law has been heavily criticized in Europe as a violation of privacy.

The European Court of Justice said EU nations acted without the correct legal basis. It did not, however, take issue with specific measures of the law.

Lawyers have until Sept. 30 to address the concerns raised by the court. If they fail to fix legal technicalities by that date, airlines may have to change the way they collect and transfer data.

The European Parliament had asked the court to annul the deal which was reached with the Americans in May 2004 despite strenuous objections.

Washington has warned airlines face fines of up to $6,000 per passenger and the loss of landing rights if the relevant information is not passed on.

The European Commission said Tuesday it would work to find a solution within the 90-day deadline.

Airline representatives also expressed confidence that changes could be made to comply with the ruling without jeopardizing the substance of the agreement.

"It does not seem to alter the reality of the situation to any major extent," said David Henderson, a spokesman for the Association of European Airlines, which represents British Airways, Air France, Lufthansa and other top carriers. "It's really a problem for the lawyers," he added.

During the negotiations, the EU won some concessions from the Americans such as shortening the time the information is stored and deleting sensitive data such as meal preference, which could indicate a passenger's religion or ethnicity.

The U.S. also said the information would be shared with other countries on a restricted basis only.

EU and U.S. officials say the data collected can only be used to fight terrorism and other serious crimes, including organized crime. Under the current terms, the information can be stored for up to 3 1/2 years.

Bolding mine.

Sweet. If I get a government job, I can use Nobby's plastic to score a fine handbag.

On a more serious note, the affection I have for my adopted country overwhelms me when I read stories like this in the same way I feel affection for my cousin when he calls to ask to borrow money: My gut tells me "hell no, fu[Antiquewhite][/Antiquewhite]cker", but I can't help but admire the scope of his self-centeredness and gumption.
Ah, U.S.
You kill me.
#2 May 30 2006 at 9:24 AM Rating: Good
Ministry of Silly Cnuts
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Yeah I've been hearing that on the news.

It's one thing for US Homeland Security to know my demographics - hell, every country accepts that.

But my CC details? Smiley: oyvey

Edited to add:

And before people lecture me that I happily share my CC details with gas stations and liquor stores, I take issue that under this ruling, I'm required to share them with agencies who've proven to pick and choose what laws and international data sharing regulations apply to them.

Bastages.

Edited, Tue May 30 10:30:37 2006 by Nobby
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#3 May 30 2006 at 9:32 AM Rating: Good
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Why do you hate people fighting to preserve freedom? Smiley: frown
#4 May 30 2006 at 9:34 AM Rating: Decent
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Yeah, I agree with you on that one. The only way that I could see this being a possible way to track is if known terrorist cc#s are put forth, and an airline has a match...even then, it's a huge violation of privacy to even have the airline actually checking that information...and that would raise another question, how would the goverment know what cc#s terrorists are using?

<edit> Was responding/agreeing with Nobby.

Edited, Tue May 30 10:47:48 2006 by brotherskeeper
#5 May 30 2006 at 9:37 AM Rating: Good
Some of you people <cough>n00b!<cough> really are short-sited and fairly naive.

Data presents patterns. Patterns reflect actions. Actions require intervention. Intervention is facilitated by data.

Data is required for intervention.
#6 May 30 2006 at 9:38 AM Rating: Decent
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Having your cc#s tracked isn't fighting to preserve freedom. Enlisting in the military is.
#7 May 30 2006 at 9:48 AM Rating: Good
Quote:
Having your cc#s tracked isn't fighting to preserve freedom. Enlisting in the military is.

At least make an effort. If you really are that stupid, it isn't worth the effort, and if you're trolling, you blew your wad too early. Come on, man, style, content and execution all count to your ***. score.
#8 May 30 2006 at 9:57 AM Rating: Good
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His Excellency MoebiusLord wrote:
Some of you people <cough>n00b!<cough> really are short-sited and fairly naive.

Data presents patterns. Patterns reflect actions. Actions require intervention. Intervention is facilitated by data.

Data is required for intervention.
Wouldn't argue that for one second Moe.

My issue is not an 'in principal' one; it's about the nature of the agency requesting it.

Your country's data protection regime is sh[Aqua][/Aqua]ite, even if it were implemented properly. Recent events have shown that the US Administration's cavalier attitude to sharing sensitive information means I'd feel safer posting my CC details and medical history in the FFXI forum.

That's one reason why I think it's a shambolic approach.

Another is that vast data requests are only worthwhile if there are sophisticated, well managed analytical systems with the capacity to infer all the nuances and actually pick up trends.

All the evidence is you don't have 'em. (Where exactly are you detaining Osama right now?)
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"I started out with nothin' and I still got most of it left" - Seasick Steve
#9 May 30 2006 at 10:12 AM Rating: Good
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I'm just amused at how we always think we can bully our way into getting what we want, even outside our own sovereign reach (which I don't think we believe anything is). We are so cute!

Edited, Tue May 30 11:20:57 2006 by Atomicflea
#10 May 30 2006 at 10:31 AM Rating: Good
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252 posts
Nevermind, arguing politics on the internet is like trying to dig through solid rock with your bare hands, you just won't get too far.

Edited, Tue May 30 11:34:36 2006 by brotherskeeper
#11 May 30 2006 at 12:05 PM Rating: Excellent
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brotherskeeper wrote:
Having your cc#s tracked isn't fighting to preserve freedom. Enlisting in the military is.


I wasn't aware that the US military takes arbitrary European Citizens!
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Do what now?
#12 May 30 2006 at 12:10 PM Rating: Good
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Danalog the Vengeful Programmer wrote:
brotherskeeper wrote:
Having your cc#s tracked isn't fighting to preserve freedom. Enlisting in the military is.


I wasn't aware that the US military takes arbitrary European Citizens!
You calling me 'arbitrary'?

Come see the oppression inherent in the system!
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"I started out with nothin' and I still got most of it left" - Seasick Steve
#13 May 30 2006 at 12:33 PM Rating: Good
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Nobby wrote:
Come see the oppression inherent in the system!
I bet this is what Nobby screams at the top of his lungs right before the pants come down.
#14 May 30 2006 at 12:41 PM Rating: Excellent
Liberal Conspiracy
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Danalog the Vengeful Programmer wrote:
I wasn't aware that the US military takes arbitrary European Citizens!
They should!

Sap some tourists across the back of the head while they're on holiday in New York and let them wake up on the USS Kitty Hawk. That'll bolster the recruitment numbers.
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
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