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Take this to heart the next time you log into your MMORPG (wFollow

#1 May 28 2006 at 2:51 AM Rating: Excellent
I want to relate a story to all of you. It's something that happened tonight on one of the MMORPGs I play, City of Heroes. I was shocked, upset, angry and deeply hurt. I know this is a long post, but I ask you all to read this carefully and really *think* about it.

This weekend was my sister's highschool graduation, so I was out of town all weekend. While I was at my mom's house, I borrowed her laptop to check my guild forums, and I saw that one of my favorite players from my City of Heroes guild was back after a long break due to serious medical concerns. So naturally I had to jump on CoH and welcome her back just as soon as I got home tonight!

While I was standing in Atlas Park (one of the two "newbie zones" in CoH and a major player hotspot where everyone tends to hang about and talk), I noticed that a few players had put together a costume contest (a regular thing in CoH). Nearly 50 players were lined up in a long line while two players ran up and down evaluating costumes. They chose 10 finalists and the rest of the players stepped back. I wasn't doing anything at the time other than talking on guild chat, so I watched the contest and tried to pick out the winners.

After a bit, they chose 3 winners and announced their names. I expected the person hosting the contest, a hero called Triumphh, to announce how much influence (in-game currency) the three players had won. Instead, he shouted "These three players have won the contest for having the GAYEST COSTUMES EVER! The real winners are all the people who weren't chosen as finalists, since you're not as gay. But you're all ****!"

Then Triumphh and his cohort, a character named Solar Pyre, began using an emote called "batsmash" on the "winner" of the contest, a low-level healer. Batsmash is an emote where your character repeatedly swings a baton in a striking motion, as if attacking a target. In other words, they began gay-bashing the "winner's" character. Now, I don't know if the winner was gay or straight, male or female, though the CHARACTER was wearing a rainbow colored uniform and went by the name Pride Warrior. The player quickly and silently logged out and did not return.

But the MOST offensive detail was the fact that nobody in Atlas Park seemed to react. Nobody said anything negative about what these two players were doing, and in fact everyone seemed to just ignore it or pretend it wasn't happening. If this had been an issue of race instead of sexual preference, everyone in Atlas Park would've been screaming. But everyone just stood around as if nothing had happened, while a fellow player's night and play experience was cruelly ruined. Who knows if that player will ever want to try CoH again after what happened. Needless to say, I was extremely offended and angry, and I contacted a GM who assured me that the two offending players would have "corrective actions" taken against them. I can only assume that means account bans.

The point of this story is to hopefully open your eyes to the kinds of intolerance that occur in MMORPGs. This was a very extreme example, but every time someone says "Dude, that was so gay" or "This high-level player totally gayed me and stole my kill", that is an example of hate-speech. Everyone would be completely shocked if someone said "This Jew NPC is charging too much for this sword" or "that ****** ganked me in PvP last night". So why is it perfectly ok for someone to use the word "gay" or the word "******"? Those aren't just casual, harmless slang terms. They're cruel, and they hurt people. Even in guild chat, you don't know if one of your guildmates may be gay or lesbian, and something you may think is a casual comment may seriously hurt someone.

So I ask everyone to please be more conscious of how words might be taken. And if someone else uses homophobic words, don't just ignore it or laugh it off. And it's not just the issue of homosexuality either, if someone is making a sexist joke or a crude comment, it's still wrong and still hurtful. Sometimes we forget that there are real people behind the digital characters on our screens, and that those real people have real feelings. And we may be hurting those people without ever meaning to.

So please, just be aware of how your words and the words of those around you might be hurting someone. And if someone makes a comment, do something about it. Tell them in private message that they should think about what they're saying. Or call a GM. Or just simply try to change the subject of conversation. But if you don't speak out, it will just continue. And things like tonight's events on City of Heroes will keep happening.
#2 May 28 2006 at 3:01 AM Rating: Default
I think your in the wrong forum.


As long as homosexuality is looked at as a negative thing, this kind of thing will always happen in this world and the virtual world of cyberspace. That said, you can either, A. Get involved, B. participate, or C. Ignore it.

I personally don't care about Gay rights, nor do I care about gay discrimination, I am not gay, it doesn't effect me, nor will it ever, so why care?

Sure it isn't the best way to be but, fact of the matter is, if you spend your life caring about every little problem on the earth you'll lose your mind. So you have to pick and choose which battles to participate in and gay rights/gay bashing is not one fight I choose to get in.
#3 May 28 2006 at 3:03 AM Rating: Excellent
It's not just the issue of homosexuality. In my days of MMORPG-playing, I've seen and heard just about every kind of discrimination. And it's all hateful, cruel and wrong. And to turn a blind eye to that is just as wrong.
#4 May 28 2006 at 3:17 AM Rating: Decent
I fully agree.

The worst thing you can do when it comes to discrimination, is to turn a blind eye to it. Ignoring it is pretty much the same as allowing it to happen. When you allow it, it will probably become the norm.

Get involved when you see that kind of behaviour, and you just might make a difference in the long run. I know I try to do what I can, when I can. Do you?
#5 May 28 2006 at 3:28 AM Rating: Default
Saboruto the Silent wrote:
It's not just the issue of homosexuality. In my days of MMORPG-playing, I've seen and heard just about every kind of discrimination. And it's all hateful, cruel and wrong. And to turn a blind eye to that is just as wrong.



So your saying there are only 2 sides to any given situation? That I am sitting on the fence?

There are many sides to many issues. Gay rights for example has:

1. Strait Men/Women fighting for gay rights for whatever reason.
2. Strait men/women fighting against gay rights for whatever reason.
3. Homosexual men/women fighting for gay rights for obvious reasons.
4. Religious groups fighting against gay rights for obvious reasons.
5. Men/women who just simply don't care one way or another for whatever reason.

Who is to say group 1 is right and group 2 is wrong? It's all about perspective, and many years from now it will be all about retrospect. I am clearly in group 5. Now I am not trying to patronize you but to say people who don't care are wrong is laughable at best.

If someone doesn't care about abortion is okay, but someone who doesn't care about gay rights is wrong? I don't understand that logic in the least.

Not everyone is going to care about every issue, also what might be surprising to you is that not everyone is going to have an opinion formulated about every situation and issue. Simply a person may not identify with a situation. If it doesn't relate to you or effect your daily life, then why care?

I don't care what gay men/women do, I don't care what anti-gay people think about gay men/women. Frankly, to be gay is a chioce, and all choices have consequences, deal with it, life sucks. I don't see why the rest of the world is supposed to stop what they are doing to pay attention to an issue that has *nothing* to do with them.

Is it right? Is it fair? These questions mean little to people who feel disconnected and empty about an issue. Not everybody is going to like your choices that you make in your life. That doesn't give you a right to bring your problem on to people who simply don't care.

If people want to go gay bashing, more power to them. If gays want to go on a protest for gay rights, more power to them, I simply don't care and I know I am not the only one.

#6 May 28 2006 at 3:36 AM Rating: Good
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Wow, that sucks. I run into this every now and then, being an officer in my guild, though not to that extent. I have to tell people constantly to chill and be kind. I mean this is a "world" where we go to releave the stresses of the day, get away from things for a while, or just have fun. Immature and heartless people exist in both worlds unfortunatly. I am a very tolerant person and have taken my share of humility but to be put through that kind of ridicule in a place where you are supposed to be "safe " is wrong. The only problem with intolerance is that it is taught from such a young age by parents, passed down from generation. I don't know if this world will ever be completly tolerant of everyone, but I will do me best to teach my future kids the right way. I think that trying to change peoples minds often backfires, or at best a complete waste of time. All we can do is be understanding to everyone and not participate in that behavior.
#7 May 28 2006 at 5:35 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Now, I don't know if the winner was gay or straight, male or female, though the CHARACTER was wearing a rainbow colored uniform and went by the name Pride Warrior.

I think it's pretty safe to assume Pride Warrior isn't showing his pride for heterosexuality.

And in that context, his costume was probably one of the top three gayest of the contest.
#8 May 28 2006 at 5:43 AM Rating: Decent
And that means gaybashing him is ok? Please...
#9 May 28 2006 at 6:01 AM Rating: Default
NorthAI the Hand wrote:
And that means gaybashing him is ok? Please...


I never said gay bashing is ok, I said I don't care if it happens or not. It isn't intolerance, it is indifference.
#10 May 28 2006 at 6:05 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
And that means gaybashing him is ok? Please...

I didn't say it was ok to gay-bash him through emotes (whatever trauma that might cause), but in the perpetrator's defense, Pride Warrior probably did have one of the top three gayest costumes there.
#11 May 28 2006 at 8:21 AM Rating: Default
It's sad that people sometimes turn a blind eye to gay bashing. I will generally call people on it when i see it, but there are times i will let it slip as well.

I've grown up around people that will spout such phrases as, he jewed me or this is totally gay. I know these people well and know they aren't bigoted towards these groups in any way. They just grew up with these phrases and never associated them with other hate speach.

I myself grew up using the term indian-giver, and never once considered it as hate speach,till i had a conflict over it at school, and though I am of a firm belief that people should be able to say whatever they wish, I also try my best to respect other people and not utter anything they might consider offensive.

If a person goes out of their way to offend and/or ridicule people then that is never acceptable and as a community we have to make people aware that this kind of behavior is unacceptable
#12 May 28 2006 at 9:15 AM Rating: Decent
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Rimesume the Shady wrote:
If someone doesn't care about abortion is okay, but someone who doesn't care about gay rights is wrong? I don't understand that logic in the least.


Rimesume raises a good point, I think. You can't, nor should you if you could, care about every little issue and problem in the world and the quote above expresses, at least in my eyes, how society is teaching us that some issues are more important than others. Actually I would take up the argument for pro-life over gay rights any day of the week, because thats what matters most to me out of those two.

I don't think its right to attack someone else for any reason when they haven't done anything to provoke conflict. So while I personally may not care about gay rights or even think homosexuality is acceptable, I also find it unacceptable to attack Pride Warrior. So although I don't care about gay rights, I would have called a GM and offered a "/sh stfu" (assuming CoH has /shout, or a similar feature). Not because the victim is gay, but because he's a person who is being attacked for no good reason.

On a different note, I have to disagree with the OP's thoughts on not using "gay" as an adjective not meaning "happy" or "homosexual". Most people acknowledge that saying "oh man, that game is gay" is not the same thing as saying "oh man, that game is homosexual". Many words and slang-terms we use might be offensive to a person of one group or another, as might common and "FCC acceptable" curse-words. While I would frown upon using any such possibly offensive term or phrase in your guild without having an idea of who you're playing with, I also don't think your #1 concern should be to not offend. Why should everyone walk on eggshells just because one person might be offended? I think if someone is offended and asks for you to stop, then you should. But I think it should be the responsibilty of the offendee, not the would-be offender, to pick and choose which terms are offensive or not.
#13 May 28 2006 at 9:28 AM Rating: Default
Maybe people need to stop being so thin skinned about crap like this. Sure the leader of the contest was an *******. So tell him that and go about your merry way. But to let one persons comments ruin your gaming experience is childish. I think a world where everyone has to be all PC and walk on eggshells is a dull one. I have had comments made about me I wasnt to happy about but you know what....they are words and I got over it a few min later.

Edited, Sun May 28 10:39:11 2006 by TheDraaken
#14 May 28 2006 at 11:00 AM Rating: Decent
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I have a theory that people become asshats when given anonymity.

Numerous situations like the one you, Saboruto, described has proven my theory to be true.

It's sad really.
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Please "talk up" if your comprehension white-shifts. I will use simple-happy language-words to help you understand.
#15 May 28 2006 at 11:58 AM Rating: Decent
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I probably wouldn't have done anything out loud either. But I would have reported them.
#16 May 28 2006 at 12:15 PM Rating: Default
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why did the character log out? if he/she was gay, then why feel bad about it? thats your life style, that character gave them the satifaction by logging out, he titled himself a coward and a 'gay').
yeah i know it was ****** for them to do it to 'pride warrior'but if that happened to me i would not log out, id go with it, **** WTF do i care what people on a game think about me? lol, you know, think im gay, i dont give a ****. if he/she wouldnt log out this thing would have blown over in less than a week, now that he/she did itll never go away now.

im not siding with them but that name 'Pride Warrior'and the rainbow outfit, comon he/she wanted someone to notice, maybe it was just a joke and the character made taht name jsut for the contest, then logged off and onto his main(ive never played CoH so idk if they can do this or not) or he/she wanted to 'come out of the closet' so to say, and didnt know the right way so he/she wanted to find out what his/her peers(game life) thought about it before making the move to his/her real life.

Edited, Sun May 28 13:25:39 2006 by newbtoon
#17 May 28 2006 at 12:26 PM Rating: Excellent
Rimesume, I'm not saying you have to, or even should, care about the issue of equal rights for homosexuals. But I really think you SHOULD care about cruelty, in whatever form it takes. You may not have to like Pride Warrior's character theme, and that's every bit your right, but surely you can understand why harassing him is wrong. If they want to gay-bash him, more power to them? That's sick.

Also, just so you know, being gay is not a choice. It's an "it is or it isn't". It's not fair to be mocked and publicly humiliated for something you have no control over.

Edited, Sun May 28 13:28:01 2006 by Saboruto
#18REDACTED, Posted: May 28 2006 at 12:47 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) and if everyone cared for cruelty as you do, there be no pricks left in the world(bows) and this world will be filled with a punch of whiney *** ******** so i cant agree with you there not everyone should care about cruelty, you think if i saw three guys beating the **** outta another guy because hes a diff color or if he prefers men that ill help?.....F/UCK no, im not getting my *** kicked, that guy is on his own sorry i try not to get involved for as my mother always told my "Mind your own damn business"
#19 May 28 2006 at 12:50 PM Rating: Excellent
Yes, I'm gay. =) Sometimes I forget that not everyone on Allakhazam knows me, but I'm very "out" on these boards. And you don't have to eat your words, it's a valid question.

And I wouldn't expect anyone to jump into the fight in a situation like that! But I would expect most people to have the decency to call the police about it, or an ambulance, or something.

Edited, Sun May 28 13:58:38 2006 by Saboruto
#20 May 28 2006 at 12:57 PM Rating: Default
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let me ask you, do you really care if someone makes fun of you for being gay? i cant see why people get offended over name calling, its just words, i get called names all the time, it doesnt effect me, i know not every one is the same, but there just names, i think if your that hurt by it, your not proud in what you are and i dont see why not, its your life live it like you want. why the hell should you care what other people that youll never see again care?
#21 May 28 2006 at 1:03 PM Rating: Excellent
Well, being called gay doesn't bother me (after all, I am gay Smiley: tongue). Being called a *** doesn't even bother me, if people want to be small-minded I don't particularly care. But it does bother other people who aren't so secure or comfortable with their sexuality, and THAT bothers me. Nobody's play experience should be disrupted the way Pride Warrior's was. And an atmosphere like that in a game takes away from the enjoyment of it. Those players weren't just being mean or using inappropriate language, they did everything in their power to ruin someone's fun and to ensure that that player left and never came back. I just don't think that's fair. And the fact that I was the only person to say anything about what was happening is what really upsets me.

I can't imagine it would've happened the same way if Triumphh and Solar Pyre were having a "Best Black Hero contest" and then called all of the participants "ni[Aqua][/Aqua]ggers" and proceeded to beat one of them with bats. But everyone turned a blind eye to the gay bashing, and I just think that if you're going to take a stand against intolerance, you should take a stand against ALL intolerance. You don't have to agree with homosexuality from a moral viewpoint, but if you have a moral objection to homosexuality then you should also have a moral objection to cruelty against a fellow player, regardless how you feel about his costume or character concept. Cruelty should ALWAYS be wrong, not just when it affects me personally.
#22 May 28 2006 at 1:25 PM Rating: Default
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Saboruto the Silent wrote:
I really think you SHOULD care about cruelty, in whatever form it takes.
Edited, Sun May 28 13:28:01 2006 by Saboruto


I aggree with your words however your actions in the past loudly disagree with this statement of yours. You are defintly one of the Asylum users most likely to be unprovokingly cruel to a user - whether it is calling a 15 year old fat or telling a 30 year old ESL mother that you want to f'uck her 3 year old son.

You can be part of the problem or part of the solution.
#23 May 28 2006 at 1:38 PM Rating: Decent
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If it had happened irl, I would be outraged.

In a video game, people can do stupid things but they can't physically hurt someone. I would also probably be complacent.
#24 May 28 2006 at 1:44 PM Rating: Default
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you know, i just did a test in a pm to my self, i wrote all the rasicm words i ever heard or know, you can do it yourself, but the only word cookied out was ******..you should know what i jsut wrote. why is that? doesnt ******** ****, mic mean roughly the same thing? yes of course it does, its there to slander one race, so why is one word cookied out and not them all, isnt that sterotyping one race, stating them above the rest? i think so.

this is the way america acts, its nasty i agree but this is how it has always been, and i dont see it ever changing tho i can care less if it does or not but alot of other people do.
#25 May 28 2006 at 2:01 PM Rating: Good
niobia the Fussy wrote:
Saboruto the Silent wrote:
I really think you SHOULD care about cruelty, in whatever form it takes.
Edited, Sun May 28 13:28:01 2006 by Saboruto


I aggree with your words however your actions in the past loudly disagree with this statement of yours. You are defintly one of the Asylum users most likely to be unprovokingly cruel to a user - whether it is calling a 15 year old fat or telling a 30 year old ESL mother that you want to f'uck her 3 year old son.

You can be part of the problem or part of the solution.


Niobia, there's something you fail to understand. Of the Asylumites, I'm one of the nice ones. I just don't particularly like you, or the fact that you seem intent on starting drama in every thread you post in.
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