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Civil War!Follow

#1 Feb 22 2006 at 3:14 PM Rating: Decent
So the middle east is now on the brink of civil war. Why does GWB think he needs to referee this thing? Pull out and let the bastards thin out their population (a la Darwin). I have a hard time understanding what goes through those sand-monkey heads of theirs.

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SAMARRA, Iraq - Insurgents detonated bombs inside one of
Iraq's holiest Shiite shrines Wednesday, destroying its golden dome and triggering more than 90 reprisal attacks on Sunni mosques. The president warned that extremists were pushing the country toward civil war, as many Shiites lashed out at the United States as partly to blame.

As the gold dome of the 1,200-year-old Askariya shrine lay in ruins, leaders on both sides called for calm: But the string of back-and-forth attacks seemed to push the country closer to all-out civil war than at any point in the three years since the U.S.-led overthrow of Saddam Hussein.

"We are facing a major conspiracy that is targeting Iraq's unity," said President Jalal Talabani, a Kurd. "We should all stand hand in hand to prevent the danger of a civil war."

U.S. Ambassador Zalmay Khalilzad and the top American commander in Iraq also warned it was a "critical moment for Iraq" and called the bombings a deliberate attempt to create sectarian tension. They promised the U.S. would contribute to the shrine's reconstruction.

"This attack is a crime against humanity," Khalilzad and Gen. George W. Casey Jr., said in a joint statement.

In one ominous sign of how Shiites may react, Iraq's top Shiite cleric and the country's vice president hinted that local armed militias might play a bigger role in security in future, if the government can't protect such holy shrines.

Both Sunnis and the United States fear the rise of such militias, which Sunnis view as little more than death squads. American commanders believe they undercut U.S. efforts to create a professional Iraqi army and police force — a key step toward the eventual drawdown of U.S. forces.

Some Shiite political leaders already were angry with the United States because it has urged them to form a unity government in which nonsectarian figures control the army and police. Khalilzad warned earlier this week — in a statement clearly targeted toward Shiite hardliners — that America would not continue to support institutions run by sectarian groups with links to armed militias.

After the attacks, one top Shiite political leader accused Khalilzad of sharing some responsibility for the bombing of the shrine because of that stance.

"These statements ... gave green lights to terrorist groups. And, therefore, he shares in part of the responsibility," said the official, Abdul-Aziz al-Hakim, head of the Supreme Council for the Islamic Revolution in Iraq and the former commander of its militia.

The current interior minister, who controls the police, is a member of al-Hakim's party.

The new tensions come as Iraq's various factions are still unable to put together a government after the Dec. 15 elections. The president said the brazen assault on the shrine — the third major attack against Shiite targets in as many days — seemed aimed at destroying the talks.

The Askariya shrine, also known as the Golden Mosque, contains the tombs of two revered Shiite imams, who are considered by Shiites to be among the successors of the Prophet Muhammad.

No group claimed responsibility for the 6:55 a.m. assault on the shrine in Samarra, 60 miles north of Baghdad, carried out by insurgents posing as police. But suspicion fell on Sunni extremist groups, and a government statement said "several suspects" had been detained.

In the hours after the bombing, more than 90 Sunni mosques were attacked with automatic rifles and rocket-propelled grenades, burned or taken over by Shiites, said the Iraqi Islamic Party, the country's largest Sunni political group. At least seven people, including three clerics, were killed in the attacks, which were mainly in Baghdad and predominantly Shiite provinces south of the country, the party said.

About 500 soldiers were sent to Sunni neighborhoods in Baghdad to prevent clashes between Shiites and Sunnis, and a leading Sunni politician, Tariq al-Hashimi, urged clerics and politicians to calm the situation "before it spins out of control."

Other major Sunni groups joined in condemning the attack. The Sunni clerical Association of Muslim Scholars called the bombing a "criminal act," while the Sunni Endowment, a government organization that cares for Sunni mosques and shrines, sent a delegation to Samarra to investigate.

Al-Sistani — the top Shiite cleric — sent instructions to his followers forbidding attacks on Sunni mosques, especially the major ones in Baghdad. He called for seven days of mourning, his aides said. But he later hinted, as did Iraqi Vice President Adil Abdul-Mahdi, that religious militias could be given a bigger security role if the government is not capable of protecting holy shrines.

Shiite leaders in surrounding countries, including
Iran's most influential cleric body, the Qom Shiite Seminary, condemned the attacks.

Large protests erupted in Shiite parts of Baghdad and in cities throughout the Shiite heartland to the south. In Basra, Shiite militants traded rifle and rocket-propelled grenade fire with guards at the office of the Iraqi Islamic Party. Smoke billowed from the building.

Shiite protesters later set fire to a Sunni shrine containing the seventh century tomb of Talha bin Obeid-Allah, companion of the Prophet Muhammad, on the outskirts of the southern city. Police found 11 bodies of Sunni Muslims, most of them shot in the head, in two neighborhoods of Basra, police Capt. Mushtaq Kadhim said. Two of the dead were Egyptians, Kadhim said.

Protesters in Najaf, Kut and Baghdad's Shiite slum of Sadr City also marched through the streets by the hundreds and thousands, many shouting anti-American and anti-Israeli slogans and burning those nations' flags.

The Interior Ministry said the Samarra attack was carried out by four men, one wearing a military uniform and three clad in black, who entered the mosque and detonated two bombs. The top of the dome collapsed into a crumbly mess, leaving just traces of gold showing through the rubble. Part of the shrine's tiled northern wall also was damaged.

Police said Wednesday afternoon no casualties had been found as Iraqis picked through the debris, pulling out artifacts and copies of the Muslim holy book, the Quran.

U.S. and Iraqi forces surrounded the shrine and searched nearby houses. National Security Adviser Mouwafak al-Rubaie said 10 people were detained for questioning. An Interior Ministry official put the number at nine, and said they included five guards.

Thousands of demonstrators crowded near the shrine, waving Iraqi flags, Shiite religious banners and copies of the Quran.

"This criminal act aims at igniting civil strife," said Mahmoud al-Samarie, a 28-year-old builder. "We demand an investigation so that the criminals who did this be punished. If the government fails to do so, then we will take up arms and chase the people behind this attack."

Tradition says the Askariya shrine, which draws Shiite pilgrims from throughout the Islamic world, is near the place where the last of the 12 Shiite imams, Mohammed al-Mahdi, disappeared. Al-Mahdi, known as the "hidden imam," was the son and grandson of the two imams buried in the Askariya shrine. Shiites believe he is still alive and will return to restore justice to humanity.

The golden dome was completed in 1905.
#2 Feb 22 2006 at 3:15 PM Rating: Good
sigh...

Edited, Wed Feb 22 15:17:28 2006 by Frakkor
#3 Feb 22 2006 at 3:17 PM Rating: Decent
Prodigal Son
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Things were much more stable there when Saddam was oppressing the people instead of us.
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#4 Feb 22 2006 at 3:18 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
answer = "America! Fu[/b][/i][i][b]ck Yeah!"


I don't get it.
#5 Feb 22 2006 at 3:18 PM Rating: Good
neither did I apparently.
#6 Feb 22 2006 at 3:19 PM Rating: Good
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But they are Bringing Peace and Demoncracy to the Middle East!!!



Never mind how they completely abandoned all efforts at peace between Israel and Palestine, have been completely ineffectual with Iran, repeatedly mishandled Iraq, and angered or alienated most countries in the ME. Leading to a trend of further distabilization and increasing anti US sentiment which tends to give hardline islamic theocrats more sway.
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#7 Feb 22 2006 at 3:21 PM Rating: Decent
Westerners shouldn't intervene.

Either way one side is going to hate you for it.

Any excuse to stir up violence
#8 Feb 22 2006 at 3:23 PM Rating: Decent
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bodhisattva wrote:
But they are Bringing Peace and Demoncracy to the Middle East!!!



Never mind how they completely abandoned all efforts at peace between Israel and Palestine, have been completely ineffectual with Iran, repeatedly mishandled Iraq, and angered or alienated most countries in the ME. Leading to a trend of further distabilization and increasing anti US sentiment which tends to give hardline islamic theocrats more sway.


TYPO N00|3!1! GOP PWNS U!
#9 Feb 22 2006 at 3:29 PM Rating: Good
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krayzeeryan wrote:
Westerners shouldn't intervene.


Westerners should be careful about how they intervene would be a more on the ball statement.

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Bode - 100 Holy Paladin - Lightbringer
#10 Feb 22 2006 at 3:35 PM Rating: Default
The problem with us Americans is we are damned if we do and damned if we don't. If we don't help we get s hit on because we are a Superpower and should help. If we do help we get s hit on for sticking our nose where it doesn't belong.
I say after Iraq (if there's ever an end to it) we keep to ourselves and tell the rest of the world to ***** themselves while we work on our own problems.
#11 Feb 22 2006 at 3:39 PM Rating: Good
Tracer Bullet
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Iraq really needs to be split into three countries.

It was originally 3 separate regions anyway, until Great Britain said "Hey let's put all these brown people together, they all look the same anyway."


#12 Feb 22 2006 at 3:58 PM Rating: Good
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It would truly be fun to say "told you so!!!!"

Except for the huge tragedy it has become both for the Iraqis and for the Coalition troops stationed there.
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#13 Feb 22 2006 at 4:02 PM Rating: Decent
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I think the root of all of this is sheer boredom.


Maybe their women should start dressing more slutty and all of the ME leaders should start passing out GBAs.


Face it, being stuck in the desert for 1000s of years is gonna make a ***** cranky. KILL KILL KILL at the slightest provacation... I KNOW there are those of you out there that can relate to that mentality... we have just been taught by our families and TVs how to supress it.

There we have a nation of people NEVER EVER taught a thing about suppressing anger.. only supressing joy.



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#14 Feb 22 2006 at 4:06 PM Rating: Good
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Where fundamentally incompatible cultures are forced to live under a shared administration, civil war erupts. American history has a fine example of this. Britain also left the seeds of this in quite a few post-colonial locations (quite a few states in Africa, for example).

Where said cultures are separated into neighbor-states by way of a line drawn on a map, and told to go their own way, open warfare erupts. Britain was famous for creating this type of situation all over the frickin' place, too.

A couple of famous ones:
- India and Pakistan
- Iran and Iraq
- Israel and Palestine (Britain had control 'til ceding the problem to the UN in 1954, I think).

#15 Feb 22 2006 at 4:09 PM Rating: Decent
Quote:
Quote:answer = "America! Fu[/b][/i][i][b]ck Yeah!"



I don't get it.



It is from a film called Team America World Police, about a force that goes in to stop a terrorist bombing and tear the place up themselves with massive weapons to stop a pokey little bomb. That is the usual stereotype of Americans here in the UK, or at least the part where i live.
#16 Feb 22 2006 at 5:44 PM Rating: Decent
Things were much more stable there when Saddam was oppressing the people instead of us.
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uhhh, anyone who didnt see this comming raise your hand.

:looks around and sees nothing but republican fingers waiving in the air.......

hell, bush sr wrote a book on why NOT to go into bagdad. he is looking like a prophet right about now. to bad jr cant read.

there is no good way out any more. better to just pull out, say "our bad", adn through alot of money at them for a while. its how we solve most of our ***** ups. atleast that way we wont be throwing away american lives for NOTHING.

the moral majority working....HARD....for you.
#17 Feb 23 2006 at 11:25 PM Rating: Decent
over 100 dead in rioting in the streets, and public executions today.

a little side note many of you probably dont think about. when Hussin invaded and took over Kuwait, he immediatly installed his own puppet government and there was peace almost immediatly. well, untill we kicked his butt out anyway.

my point? hussin did a better job at occupying a conqured country with his pissant little army than the most powerfull country in the world is doing for the whole world to see.

incompetance.

no other word for it.

and people all over the world are paying a high price for it. Bush needs to put muslim troops on the ground. immediatly. hell, Syeria did a much better job with Lebonon than we are doing in Iraq.

the laughing stock of the world. Bush,s legacy. just too bad so many real human beings had to die because of it.
#18 Feb 24 2006 at 2:02 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
and people all over the world are paying a high price for it. Bush needs to put muslim troops on the ground. immediatly. hell, Syeria did a much better job with Lebonon than we are doing in Iraq.


You don't know **** about that, apparently. And learn to spell both of those countries names, for god's ******* sake.
#19 Feb 24 2006 at 3:02 AM Rating: Decent
You know, when you think of it, the Earth will be very very peaceful when everyone dies.


Maybe this whole WW3 thing will be for the best.
#20 Feb 24 2006 at 4:26 AM Rating: Decent
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***** all y'all, I'm moving to Canada.
#21 Feb 24 2006 at 9:14 AM Rating: Default
You don't know sh*t about that, apparently. And learn to spell both of those countries names, for god's @#%^ing sake.
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what i know is lebenon was at a constant state of civil war, and in a constant battle with Israel. thousands dying every year from political infighting, and hundreds of thousands killed on both sides during their continious war with Israel.

the league of arab nations drafted a resolution to step in and end the violance there. Syeria was charged with taking controll of the country and establishing order. within months of their forced take over, the war with Israel ended, and the secular violance slowed to a trickle, and eventually almost completly stoped.

enter the U.S. in Iraq. enter our push to spread democracy in Lebenon, and our push through the U.N. to allow them to govern themselves, and have Syeria remove its troops and political machine out of the country.

the result?

escelation of secular violance within Lebenon, including the assination of political leaders, and the resumption of hostilities with Israel.

good job U.S.A.

a heads up for us. SOME people need to be oppressed. SOME people are NOT READY for democracy. SOME people are dangerious to themselves and others given FREE WILL.

Hussin knew that. aparently. the league of arab nations knew that. Syeria knew that. but GW was on a mission to change the world.......and he did. for the worse.

petition the league of arab nations, the U.N., and NATO for muslim troops from predomintly muslim countries, and controlled by muslim leaders and flood Iraq with 4 to 500,000 MUSLIM TROOPS.

coarse, that would be admitting defeat. cant have that. on with the bloodletting.
#22 Feb 24 2006 at 11:18 AM Rating: Good
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6,471 posts
shadowrelm wrote:
lebenon...syeria


third try's the charm.
#23 Feb 24 2006 at 11:49 AM Rating: Decent
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132 posts

Quote:
Iraq really needs to be split into three countries.

It was originally 3 separate regions anyway, until Great Britain said "Hey let's put all these brown people together, they all look the same anyway."


Damn straight, someone knows their post WWI history.. the ninety years of proof that it IS a war for oil..



Quote:

a heads up for us. SOME people need to be oppressed. SOME people are NOT READY for democracy. SOME people are dangerious to themselves and others given FREE WILL.


Yeah, like you.

I thought the Syria/Lebanon guy was bad, then I remembered the OP

Quote:
So the middle east is now on the brink of civil war. Why does GWB think he needs to referee this thing? Pull out and let the bastards thin out their population (a la Darwin). I have a hard time understanding what goes through those sand-monkey heads of theirs.


Hmm I have a hard time wondering why you think 'sand-monkey heads' think differently than you? Is it that you are feeling a little racially superior today? Dare I say it, a white supremicast? Tell me, how is that whole master race thing going, anyway? Oh wait, the facists lost the last war?? You wouldn't know it..

Yeah well, the US wouldn't make the same mistake twice, ala Vietnam, would they??
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