Probably not (barring something obscure in Texas law). For voluntary manslaughter in most jurisdictions and according to the Modern Penal Code, the killing would be murder but for the existence of adequate provocation.
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lets look at the timming.
cheney is looking good for an indictment in the outing of the CIA agent this week.
cheney asserts he has the authority to declassify classified information, POSSIBLY in light of the potential leak indictment.
then....this laywer, HIS laywer, tells him on a hunting trip, off the record, he might go to jail........
BLAM...........
mabe?
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Poor CheneyFollow
Sigh. A very quick google search shows us the actual definition of a "heart attack".
He did not have a heart attack. There was no loss of blood flow and no heart muscle damage. What he actually suffered was an atrial fibrillation, which is essentially an irregular heart beat due to missfiring electrical signals. It *can* be a precursor to a heart attack, but can also result from any sort of shock or stress to the body (such as getting hit by a shotgun blast and having a pellet lodged in the tissue surrounding the heart).
I'm just curious. What exactly do people think was being covered up? He immediately got medical attention for the victim. He informed the police of the incident about one hour after it happened. For hunting accidents, those are pretty darn quick times. It's not unusual at all for people involved in a hunting accident to not be interviewed until the next day. Unless the police specifically suspect foul play, there's no reason to press the issue.
Every witness says that Cheney was not drinking or drunk or under the influence of anything that would impair his judgement at the time of the accident. The proper authorities were notified promptly. It was an accident. Get over it...
He did not have a heart attack. There was no loss of blood flow and no heart muscle damage. What he actually suffered was an atrial fibrillation, which is essentially an irregular heart beat due to missfiring electrical signals. It *can* be a precursor to a heart attack, but can also result from any sort of shock or stress to the body (such as getting hit by a shotgun blast and having a pellet lodged in the tissue surrounding the heart).
I'm just curious. What exactly do people think was being covered up? He immediately got medical attention for the victim. He informed the police of the incident about one hour after it happened. For hunting accidents, those are pretty darn quick times. It's not unusual at all for people involved in a hunting accident to not be interviewed until the next day. Unless the police specifically suspect foul play, there's no reason to press the issue.
Every witness says that Cheney was not drinking or drunk or under the influence of anything that would impair his judgement at the time of the accident. The proper authorities were notified promptly. It was an accident. Get over it...
King Nobby wrote:
More words please
Maybe nothing happened. However, it looks awfully weird when you don't call 911, call the sheriff and arrange for a meeting the following morning instead of meeting now, etc. If you shot someone, somehow I don't think you could just ask nicely to talk many hours later, like you say is "not unusual."
The press is hyping it because Cheney was not being forthright about what happened. If he had come out in the beginning and said "sorry, had an accident..." it would not be nearly the deal it has become. It just gives the impression that he is hiding something.
Katarine wrote:
Maybe nothing happened. However, it looks awfully weird when you don't call 911, call the sheriff and arrange for a meeting the following morning instead of meeting now, etc. If you shot someone, somehow I don't think you could just ask nicely to talk many hours later, like you say is "not unusual."
First off, you don't call 911 to report something. You call 911 because you require emergency assistance. In this case, they already had an EMT with the group. They had an ambulance 25 minutes away (far closer then one from the nearest hospital). They didn't call 911 because they didn't need 911 assistance to get medical care for the victim.
In most cases of hunting accidents it takes hours before medical help arrives, and hours more before police ever talk to the people involved. It's just not that unusual. Unless there's reason to believe a crime was commited, what's the point? In this case, you've got about 20 people who were all there and witnessed the accident. They all say that it was an accident. I'm sure if someone had thought otherwise and called the police to report an attempted murder or something, that the police would have treated it as a more serious issue.
Quote:
The press is hyping it because Cheney was not being forthright about what happened. If he had come out in the beginning and said "sorry, had an accident..." it would not be nearly the deal it has become. It just gives the impression that he is hiding something.
No. They're buthurt because he wasn't forthright with informing *them*. They wanted to know immediately so they could speculate wildly for a day before the facts became known. Since they didn't get to do that, they're settling for speculating wildly about why Cheney didn't do something that he's not in any way legally or otherwise required to do (inform the media).
I'll ask again. When did the media become something we're required to report everything to? When did they become a critical point of contact for all events that occur? Worse. When did it become a subject of suspicion if someone *doesn't* tell the media what's going on? Doesn't that seem kinda... wrong?
King Nobby wrote:
More words please
I don't know the answers to those questions. I still say that is why it looks odd to people. I think the media is getting a vibe that there is stuff going on that isn't being said, mostly due to the gap in the incident and reporting it.
There are other instances that similar things have happened to government officials. The media jumped all over because things just weren't released in a way that didn't sound...fishy. For instance, the white house has a good, organized way of releasing news. Why is this ranchowner releasing the news? It just doesn't make any sense.
Again, I am not saying anything fishy happened. It just appears that way because of the circumstances involved.
As far as Cheney just not reporting because he doesn't have to, come on. The VP shoots someone in the face and no one is going to find out? He would have been much better off just coming out in the beginning and saying "oops."
Ok. Valid points. Let me give you my take on them.
See. Here's where I have a problem though. He *did* "report it". He reported it to the hospital (had to since they admitted the patient, right?). He reported it to police. Both within an hour of the incident. The "gap" isn't between the incident and it being reported, but between the incident and when the media was informed. I just don't see that as suspicious. I see it as the media upset that they didn't get a juicy story.
The White House press office is for releasing information relevant to the running of the White House and the government. Had Cheney been the one who was shot, I'm sure it would have been immediately reported via the press office because having the second in command hospitalized would have been relevant to the operation of the government.
Cheney's ability to perform his duties as VP (such as they are) was not impacted. No government capability was impacted by the event. No effect on the government or its ability to govern was involved. The White House press room is not there to diseminate gossip about anyone in the government. It's about releasing information relevant to the operation of the government. I'm not sure how this qualifies.
I'd say it appears that way to you because the media circus and constant barrage of really silly questions makes it seem that way. But that's just my take on it.
See. That's the other issue. How can you think that anyone thought "no one is going to find out"? He filed a police report. He took the injured man to a hospital. There was no attempt to conceal this from anyone. The only thing he didn't do was call up reporters and tell them.
I'm just confused as to why anyone should feel they are "better off" by making sure to run to the media anytime something happens, not because of any wrongdoing, but because if they don't, the media will punish them for not giving them the juicy story.
In the end, isn't that what this is really all about? The media is flexing it's muscle here. It's showing that it will punish people who don't inform them in the time and manner they want. Isn't that a bit ridiculous? The *only* story here is that Cheney didn't tell the media about this. I'm not sure how that is a story, or why we should think it's anything more then the media getting uppity.
Katarine wrote:
I don't know the answers to those questions. I still say that is why it looks odd to people. I think the media is getting a vibe that there is stuff going on that isn't being said, mostly due to the gap in the incident and reporting it.
See. Here's where I have a problem though. He *did* "report it". He reported it to the hospital (had to since they admitted the patient, right?). He reported it to police. Both within an hour of the incident. The "gap" isn't between the incident and it being reported, but between the incident and when the media was informed. I just don't see that as suspicious. I see it as the media upset that they didn't get a juicy story.
Quote:
There are other instances that similar things have happened to government officials. The media jumped all over because things just weren't released in a way that didn't sound...fishy. For instance, the white house has a good, organized way of releasing news. Why is this ranchowner releasing the news? It just doesn't make any sense.
The White House press office is for releasing information relevant to the running of the White House and the government. Had Cheney been the one who was shot, I'm sure it would have been immediately reported via the press office because having the second in command hospitalized would have been relevant to the operation of the government.
Cheney's ability to perform his duties as VP (such as they are) was not impacted. No government capability was impacted by the event. No effect on the government or its ability to govern was involved. The White House press room is not there to diseminate gossip about anyone in the government. It's about releasing information relevant to the operation of the government. I'm not sure how this qualifies.
Quote:
Again, I am not saying anything fishy happened. It just appears that way because of the circumstances involved.
I'd say it appears that way to you because the media circus and constant barrage of really silly questions makes it seem that way. But that's just my take on it.
Quote:
As far as Cheney just not reporting because he doesn't have to, come on. The VP shoots someone in the face and no one is going to find out? He would have been much better off just coming out in the beginning and saying "oops."
See. That's the other issue. How can you think that anyone thought "no one is going to find out"? He filed a police report. He took the injured man to a hospital. There was no attempt to conceal this from anyone. The only thing he didn't do was call up reporters and tell them.
I'm just confused as to why anyone should feel they are "better off" by making sure to run to the media anytime something happens, not because of any wrongdoing, but because if they don't, the media will punish them for not giving them the juicy story.
In the end, isn't that what this is really all about? The media is flexing it's muscle here. It's showing that it will punish people who don't inform them in the time and manner they want. Isn't that a bit ridiculous? The *only* story here is that Cheney didn't tell the media about this. I'm not sure how that is a story, or why we should think it's anything more then the media getting uppity.
King Nobby wrote:
More words please
31 posts
Few things...
1. Poor Cheney? lol Poor Harry!
2. Heart Attack, aka Myocardial Infarction, is indeed the term used for when a part of the heart tissue "dies," but this does often result in abnormal heartbeats (or even a stopped heartbeat). Irregular heart rythings (ie: A-fib and V-fib) can be fatal.
3. The annoying part of the White House and anything associated with it with regards to the media is this:
We hear, in what seems like a very short time, about dorkness (ie. "Bush Family Gets a New Dog" etc), but for some reason "VP Shoots Dude in Face," takes a little longer than expected to get out. It's understood the White House doesn't HAVE TO report stuff ASAP to the media (which for all intents and purposes, is reporting it to the citizens), BUT they should certainly not be surprised when the media and/or citizens raise an eyebrow when the story goes "unknown" for a day. Because they are otherwise quick to report other important, and not so important info (and for pete's sake, they have a press secretary!) THAT is why it is a little "suspicious."
In all likely hood it was probably a sober hunting accident with nothing abnormal about it except for one important thing, it involved the Vice President of the United States. It may however, have been another "accident" for Cheney and Co. to delay the story of the incident to the media, thereby opening a potentially bigger can of worms than necessary.
But, I think it's fair to say, if the media had this story even seconds after it happened, they would still have had a field day with this. Bottom line, Vice President Cheny shooting someone in the face/heart = juicy news no matter what. I bet even if it happened when he was a 20 something healthy stud (was he?) and it just came out now, it would have been a decent sized story. It's bigger because he is currently the US VP, the story was perceived by quite a few to be "delayed," and imagine how big it would have been if Harry Whittington was a democrat! o.O
At least now Cheney knows for sure if push ever came to shove and he was asked or forced to go fight in Iraq (I know this is a long shot BUT...) the answer would be NO. We've got enough iraqi's shooting our troops, we don't need him helping them out any.
And taken from toostupidtobepresident.com :
Top 12 reasons the vice president waited 18 hours to reveal he shot a 78 year-old man in the face.
12. Still looking for the bird at which he had aimed.
11. Hoping war with Iran would break-out and nobody would notice.
10. Didn't want to upstage Condi on "Meet the Press."
9. Sober enough to shoot, not sober enough to place a phone call.
8. With 50 to 80 units of bird shot in his face, it was difficult to know if the victim was Whittington or a terrorist.
7. Waiting for the story to get leaked, then demand an investigation of the so-called "Secret Service."
6. Ironically, Whittington was the designated "let's get our story straight" guy on the trip.
5. "***** Eye" marathon on Bravo Saturday night.
4. Erasing Whittington's existence prior to the shooting proved more difficult than expected.
3. Incident occurred minutes after post office closed for the weekend.
2. Scope and type of wounds would reveal Cheney's sources and methods and leave him vulnerable to Al Quail-da.
1. He just didn't care.
1. Poor Cheney? lol Poor Harry!
2. Heart Attack, aka Myocardial Infarction, is indeed the term used for when a part of the heart tissue "dies," but this does often result in abnormal heartbeats (or even a stopped heartbeat). Irregular heart rythings (ie: A-fib and V-fib) can be fatal.
3. The annoying part of the White House and anything associated with it with regards to the media is this:
We hear, in what seems like a very short time, about dorkness (ie. "Bush Family Gets a New Dog" etc), but for some reason "VP Shoots Dude in Face," takes a little longer than expected to get out. It's understood the White House doesn't HAVE TO report stuff ASAP to the media (which for all intents and purposes, is reporting it to the citizens), BUT they should certainly not be surprised when the media and/or citizens raise an eyebrow when the story goes "unknown" for a day. Because they are otherwise quick to report other important, and not so important info (and for pete's sake, they have a press secretary!) THAT is why it is a little "suspicious."
In all likely hood it was probably a sober hunting accident with nothing abnormal about it except for one important thing, it involved the Vice President of the United States. It may however, have been another "accident" for Cheney and Co. to delay the story of the incident to the media, thereby opening a potentially bigger can of worms than necessary.
But, I think it's fair to say, if the media had this story even seconds after it happened, they would still have had a field day with this. Bottom line, Vice President Cheny shooting someone in the face/heart = juicy news no matter what. I bet even if it happened when he was a 20 something healthy stud (was he?) and it just came out now, it would have been a decent sized story. It's bigger because he is currently the US VP, the story was perceived by quite a few to be "delayed," and imagine how big it would have been if Harry Whittington was a democrat! o.O
At least now Cheney knows for sure if push ever came to shove and he was asked or forced to go fight in Iraq (I know this is a long shot BUT...) the answer would be NO. We've got enough iraqi's shooting our troops, we don't need him helping them out any.
And taken from toostupidtobepresident.com :
Top 12 reasons the vice president waited 18 hours to reveal he shot a 78 year-old man in the face.
12. Still looking for the bird at which he had aimed.
11. Hoping war with Iran would break-out and nobody would notice.
10. Didn't want to upstage Condi on "Meet the Press."
9. Sober enough to shoot, not sober enough to place a phone call.
8. With 50 to 80 units of bird shot in his face, it was difficult to know if the victim was Whittington or a terrorist.
7. Waiting for the story to get leaked, then demand an investigation of the so-called "Secret Service."
6. Ironically, Whittington was the designated "let's get our story straight" guy on the trip.
5. "***** Eye" marathon on Bravo Saturday night.
4. Erasing Whittington's existence prior to the shooting proved more difficult than expected.
3. Incident occurred minutes after post office closed for the weekend.
2. Scope and type of wounds would reveal Cheney's sources and methods and leave him vulnerable to Al Quail-da.
1. He just didn't care.
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