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So I was just involved in a fist fightFollow

#52 Feb 10 2006 at 1:45 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:

He knew what his nieces and nephews would eventually end up calling him, and he had to start early to stop that nonsense before it even got started.

Bahahah. Classic. I don't know why this is so funny to me.



By the way, if I even hear of a woman getting hit, **** hits the fan. It's over by that time.

I grew up in a household where my mother was married six times, and each of them (including my father)were alcoholics, or the jealous type. It's because she was abused and suffered so much that I have absolutely no sympathy for a man who abuses a woman.
#53 Feb 10 2006 at 1:51 PM Rating: Good
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Steriods?

No?
#54 Feb 10 2006 at 1:51 PM Rating: Good
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Just wanted to say thanks for the posts guys. We would have called the police like i said, but for the domestic violence report, the girlfriend alone can make that call in PA. Red called the police this morning when he woke up and his tooth was still loose and his lip was still split. Hoopefully the ******* gets tossed in lockup.

As for the knife, I was standing in front of my house with it. So far as I know, legally speaking, if someone forces entry in to your house you have permission under the "Make My Day" law to escalate violence to any level in the name of self defense. I basically grabbed it because my friend was being followed down by the psycho, and I wanted to be sure that when he got here the kid wouldn't try to get inside our house. If i'd had a gun I would've used that instead. No actual threats were made on my part, I just had it there for protection, albiet in my hand.

Hopefully the guy is someone I'll never have to see again though. Otherwise we'll be forced to expose his internal organs to the light of day.
#55 Feb 10 2006 at 2:13 PM Rating: Excellent
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NephthysWanderer the Charming wrote:
This is nothing about guy hormone issues. The guy is 'roided out of his head.


Who says I was talking about him?
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#56 Feb 10 2006 at 2:19 PM Rating: Good
Quote:
As for the knife, I was standing in front of my house with it. So far as I know, legally speaking, if someone forces entry in to your house you have permission under the "Make My Day" law to escalate violence to any level in the name of self defense. I basically grabbed it because my friend was being followed down by the psycho, and I wanted to be sure that when he got here the kid wouldn't try to get inside our house. If i'd had a gun I would've used that instead. No actual threats were made on my part, I just had it there for protection, albiet in my hand.


Not sure of the specifics in PA, but in most states it's "reasonable force" -- the minimum amount of force needed to repel an attacker--not "escalate violence to any level in the name of self defense." Even in cases of "self defense" you could end up in jail for 48 hours while they decide if they will prosecute.

People have this misconception that because they were defending themselves, they are immune to prosecution. The reality is "self defense" is an arguement for your defense at trial and a jury/judge decide if you were justified or you went beyond what was needed to defend yourself.

There is a big difference between using a knife you have in your pocket or on your belt, to defend against a larger more savage attacker, and standing on your porch, knife in hand waiting for the guy following your friend. The former would likely result in no charges or an acquittal using self defense at your trial. The latter could result in a nice long prison term, since you were waiting for the guy with the knife in hand. That is predetermination. You already had it in mind to stab the guy if he came at you. See the difference?


Quote:
If i'd had a gun I would've used that instead. No actual threats were made on my part, I just had it there for protection, albiet in my hand.


The threat is implied. That's why most states have laws against brandishing weapons.

Just some things to keep in mind for the future.
#57 Feb 10 2006 at 2:44 PM Rating: Excellent


I witnessed an interesting altercation last night. I went out to the bars downtown to listen to some blues music with my dad and stepmother, and we decided to go home around midnight. They are both lawyers and have an office right off the square, and so we walked by there so my dad could pick up some paperwork on the way home. We were all inside, and suddenly my stepmother starts beating on the window and yelling "He's kicking her! Stop right now!" She was upset enough that my dad called 911 without even getting up to see what was going on.

My stepmother runs out the front door and my father and I follow, and there is this fraternity guy-type kicking and punching this girl, and calling her all sorts of vulgar names. The police show up almost immediately (its a classic college town, and therefore the police hang out downtown in large numbers during peak bar hours), and the guy runs off and gets chased down Cops-style. My parents get the girl calmed down and inside, and try to convince her to call her mother because they feel she needs a lawyer. My dad talks to the bouncer that witnessed more of the incident, and apparently what happened was that the girl walked into a bar, saw her boyfriend with another girl in his lap, and...bit a chunk of his ear off. This is why he was beating the crap out of her. After this was figured out, both were arrested, and the guy was taken to the emergency room. He really was missing his ear lobe.

College town drama!

#58 Feb 10 2006 at 2:48 PM Rating: Good
Katarine wrote:
I witnessed an interesting altercation last night. I went out to the bars downtown to listen to some blues music with my dad and stepmother, and we decided to go home around midnight. They are both lawyers and have an office right off the square, and so we walked by there so my dad could pick up some paperwork on the way home. We were all inside, and suddenly my stepmother starts beating on the window and yelling "He's kicking her! Stop right now!" She was upset enough that my dad called 911 without even getting up to see what was going on.

My stepmother runs out the front door and my father and I follow, and there is this fraternity guy-type kicking and punching this girl, and calling her all sorts of vulgar names. The police show up almost immediately (its a classic college town, and therefore the police hang out downtown in large numbers during peak bar hours), and the guy runs off and gets chased down Cops-style. My parents get the girl calmed down and inside, and try to convince her to call her mother because they feel she needs a lawyer. My dad talks to the bouncer that witnessed more of the incident, and apparently what happened was that the girl walked into a bar, saw her boyfriend with another girl in his lap, and...bit a chunk of his ear off. This is why he was beating the crap out of her. After this was figured out, both were arrested, and the guy was taken to the emergency room. He really was missing his ear lobe.

College town drama!
Was her last name Tyson by chance?
#59 Feb 10 2006 at 2:48 PM Rating: Good
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Hmm, damn. I thought that by being on my property I was legally obliged.. glad nothing happened then. I know the make my day law allows you to kill an individual who breaks into your home or forces entry with the intent to commit a crime. However standing on my porch with a knife probobly wasn't the best idea, you're right. Adrenaline can make you do stupid things... I'll think more in the future.
#60 Feb 10 2006 at 3:36 PM Rating: Good
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The legal rights you possess with respect to self defense vary considerably by state and locality. If you are not a lawyer or exceptionally well versed in your local laws, err on the side of caution, always.

I agree with the consensus that you absolutely should have called the police, first thing. I appreciate you wanting to do stupid-victim-girlfriend a favor, but it was not a correct action. What about your friend, the one with the loose teeth? He just got attacked on a public street. That's assault, and it's worth the trip downtown.

Also, while you may be relatively correct about the requirements for a domestic abuse charge, this is again something that varies by state and locality. Let the cops and the courts sort it out. Almost everywhere, if you witness a beating in progress and call the cops down, you can testify as a witness that an assault occurred. Similarly, if the police happen to show up and notice that someone has been injured, and have witnesses ready to testify as to how they got injured, the State can press charges irrespective of the wishes of the victim. This is true most everywhere. Ask an area prosecutor or give a call to the district attorney's office for clarification. They can probably set you straight on what your options were under the law.


I'm glad to hear that you were not seriously injured. Containing a violent individual is a difficult prospect. It's tough to do without getting bruised. Still, you seem to have come out with only minor injuries - good work.


Recommendations for next time:

- call cops first
- get victim-types medical attention
- get people to safety as able
- immobilize attacker as able (personal choice)

With four or five people it should have been possible to get him to ground and then keep him there. Just have people sit on him or something, pin him to the ground and not let him move. Take care not to kill the silly son of a ***** as that will swing the court's opinion decidedly against you. It's probably better to step off and let the cops handle that side of things.

Particularly since you knew where he lived.

Particularly with the dumbass standing outside, making threats. Cops love that stuff.
#61 Feb 10 2006 at 4:19 PM Rating: Default
[quote=Kakar the Vile]Drugs of some sort must have been involved.quote]

Sounds a lot like typical meth side effects to me so I think your probably right, Kakar.
#62REDACTED, Posted: Feb 10 2006 at 4:28 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Blood,
#63 Feb 10 2006 at 4:31 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
I agree with the consensus that you absolutely should have called the police, first thing. I appreciate you wanting to do stupid-victim-girlfriend a favor, but it was not a correct action. What about your friend, the one with the loose teeth? He just got attacked on a public street. That's assault, and it's worth the trip downtown.



How much favor was it for the GF? She gets to go home to a pissed off abusive BF. Calling the cops and getting that as[/shole put away for some amount of time would have been benifical to her. At least she would have had some time to wonder why she is with a man who behaves in such a way.
#64 Feb 10 2006 at 4:34 PM Rating: Good
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Hence "appreciated" (she's crying, she just wants this to end, you want to do a girl a favor, how can you tell somebody no when it's their choice, blah blah), and not "agreed with" (I don't feel his action was correct).

I think we're on the same page here.
#65 Feb 10 2006 at 4:34 PM Rating: Decent
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3,101 posts
achileez wrote:
Blood,

Quote:
The threat is implied. That's why most states have laws against brandishing weapons.

Just some things to keep in mind for the future.


You pinko commy p*ssy.

I don't know what p*ssywhipped state you live in but here in TN and TX if someone comes on your property and you feel threatened you can defend yourself by any means including discharging a weapon. And no if you're on your property it's not brandishing a weapon. It's called using the second amendment to protect yourself. Now if he were to take his gun to that guys house and start shooting that's a different matter.

Achileez


I wish you knew how white trash you sound.
#66REDACTED, Posted: Feb 10 2006 at 4:39 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Katarine,
#67REDACTED, Posted: Feb 10 2006 at 4:46 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Fender,
#68 Feb 10 2006 at 4:51 PM Rating: Decent
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Thank god I live in Illinois and own a combat shotgun for just such occations.

(laws as of 2002)


Quote:
(720 ILCS 5/7-1) Sec. 7-1. Use of force in defense of person.

A person is justified in the use of force against another when and to the extent that he reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to defend himself or another against such other's imminent use of unlawful force. However, he is justified in the use of force which is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm only if he reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or another, or the commission of a forcible felony.

(720 ILCS 5/7-2) Sec. 7-2. Use of force in defense of dwelling.

A person is justified in the use of force against another when and to the extent that he reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to prevent or terminate such other's unlawful entry into or attack upon a dwelling. However, he is justified in the use of force which is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm only if:

(a) The entry is made or attempted in a violent, riotous, or tumultuous manner, and he reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent an assault upon, or offer of personal violence to, him or another then in the dwelling, or

(b) He reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent the commission of a felony in the dwelling.

(720 ILCS 5/7-3) Sec. 7-3. Use of force in defense of other property.

A person is justified in the use of force against another when and to the extent that he reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to prevent or terminate such other's trespass on or other tortious or criminal interference with either real property (other than a dwelling) or personal property, lawfully in his possession or in the possession of another who is a member of his immediate family or household or of a person whose property he has a legal duty to protect. However, he is justified in the use of force which is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm only if he reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.

(720 ILCS 5/7-4) Sec. 7-4. Use of force by aggressor.

The justification described in the preceding Sections of this Article is not available to a person who:

(a) Is attempting to commit, committing, or escaping after the commission of, a forcible felony; or

(b) Initially provokes the use of force against himself, with the intent to use such force as an excuse to inflict bodily harm upon the assailant; or

(c) Otherwise initially provokes the use of force against himself, unless:

(1) Such force is so great that he reasonably believes that he is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm, and that he has exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the use of force which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm to the assailant; or

(2) In good faith, he withdraws from physical contact with the assailant and indicates clearly to the assailant that he desires to withdraw and terminate the use of force, but the assailant continues or resumes the use of force.

#69REDACTED, Posted: Feb 10 2006 at 4:55 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Molish,
#70 Feb 10 2006 at 4:58 PM Rating: Excellent
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Blah, blah.. insert eP33n stories here about how I had to kill this one ex-Green Beret with a machete 'cause he stared at my girlfriend so hard she fell over but the police said it was okay.

Anyway...
scubamage wrote:
Red called the police this morning when he woke up and his tooth was still loose and his lip was still split.
Erm, that doesn't fix itself. He might want to see a dentist and make sure he prepares himself to recoup a tidy sum in dentistry bills.
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Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#71 Feb 10 2006 at 5:03 PM Rating: Good
Jophiel wrote:
Blah, blah.. insert eP33n stories here about how I had to kill this one ex-Green Beret with a machete 'cause he stared at my girlfriend so hard she fell over but the police said it was okay.

Anyway...
scubamage wrote:
Red called the police this morning when he woke up and his tooth was still loose and his lip was still split.
Erm, that doesn't fix itself. He might want to see a dentist and make sure he prepares himself to recoup a tidy sum in dentistry bills.
Don;t forget to tack some on for pain and suffering.
#72 Feb 10 2006 at 5:45 PM Rating: Decent
Quote:
Blood,



Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The threat is implied. That's why most states have laws against brandishing weapons.

Just some things to keep in mind for the future.
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You pinko commy p*ssy.

I don't know what p*ssywhipped state you live in but here in TN and TX if someone comes on your property and you feel threatened you can defend yourself by any means including discharging a weapon. And no if you're on your property it's not brandishing a weapon. It's called using the second amendment to protect yourself. Now if he were to take his gun to that guys house and start shooting that's a different matter.

Achileez


1) Not all states have a "Make My Day" law.

2) The 2nd Ammendment makes no statement about being able to shoot people coming onto your property. It guarrenties the right to own a gun, but states can still regulate it.

3)link Doing a quick google, I found a posting from a Crimal Defense attorney in Houston, TX, who indicated what I said. You may get aquitted of the charges, but the state will likely charge you and you must then proove self defense.

Quote:
I'm a criminal defense lawyer here in Houston (and yes, I'm braving out Rita at home rather than on the side of a freeway crying for gas). Unless you are in an EXTREMELY small rural county, Section 9 of the Texas Penal Code must be qualified by the fact that the state's position is prosecute first, ask questions later. You'll be indicted, and the cost of defending the case (and you very well may get off if you get a good lawyer) will likely exceed the value of the property you were trying to protect.

In other words, factor in the cost of a criminal defense attorney (hint: costs more for murder defense than agg. assault defense) when debating whether or not to use deadly force in protecting your property.


So you may not end up sentenced to prison, but you may end up in jail until you get bail, and then you have the expense of a trial.

So shoot they guy grabbing your stereo, but you have been warned.

Here in CA you can't shoot someone for stealing your property but you can shoot them to defend you life or the life of another. The caveat being you can only use the minimum force needed to repel the attacker. And while I could legally wear my Glock on my hip while in my own yard, if I were standing on the porch with my gun in hand, I would likely face charges of brandishing a firearm.
#73 Feb 10 2006 at 5:47 PM Rating: Decent
Is this what qualifies as a "fistfight" these days? I mean, doesn't fight imply that you did something retalitory whilst he pounded you and your buddies and physically expressed his mysogeny coupled with repressed homosexual longings? I just don't see the fight, here, I'd say you and your friends just got fisted.
#74 Feb 11 2006 at 12:37 AM Rating: Default
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Quote:
(he was a big guy, probobly some football jock


I take offense to that :( (though I don't use 'roids)

**** roids dude, I don't want ********* the size of grapes or a ****** up liver, I wanna be normal! I woulda whipped his *** though...
#75 Feb 11 2006 at 1:57 AM Rating: Default
Quote:
You pinko commy p*ssy.

I don't know what p*ssywhipped state you live in but here in TN and TX if someone comes on your property and you feel threatened you can defend yourself by any means including discharging a weapon. And no if you're on your property it's not brandishing a weapon. It's called using the second amendment to protect yourself. Now if he were to take his gun to that guys house and start shooting that's a different matter.

Achileez


You sir are a hick.
#76 Feb 11 2006 at 2:07 AM Rating: Decent
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Dude, Calvin & Hobbes is totally hardcore.

Anyways, as per the OP, you should have gotten a baseball bat when you were inside, and gone Joe Pesci on the guy.
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