Souls, science... you know..Follow

All thought stems from already existing ideas. Thought consists of those ideas, and your interpretations. It's simply reasoning.Basically, what goes into thought is simple. When you perceive something (another idea, a thing, a person, words, whatever), it goes through your brain. That originates outside of the brain.However, the brain is basically a large translation device.It's programmed at birth.It translates what you perceive into your "own" thoughts.Like your eyes,You don't really interpret through your eyes, they're only receptors. What you receive goes to your brain, and your brain translates it so that you understand it. It depends on your definition of thought as to whether you agree with this paragraph or not.

Ok, lets run with this from the article:and this from aksephiroth:
They're basicly the same thing, no? Lets look at it this way, everything is made up of these quantum particles(damn me for not remembering the exact term but its from another one of Kelvy, wingchild and the others threads)

If I recall we can observe these points in space but they're constantly moving to create what we know as reality and by the time we figure out where they're going they're already there but if we could observe enough of these points as well as where they are going fast enough, we could tell the future.

Ok, so the human brain basicly takes this input and creates reality in the brain whether through some actualization or by taking it from our already established sensory inputs - it's two means to the same end.

I might actually be able to believe that our brains do "actualize" this quantum information in our immediate area to create reality without us even realizing it the same way that we can watch a ball and figure out where it's heading without doing all the trig long hand. Furthermore, if someones brain was advanced enough or at least abnormal enough there's the possibility that they may be able to observe enough of these points to tell the future (psychics and the like). Maybe the "tingling" on the back of the neck or the feeling that "someones watching you" (when there actually is) is because even though we arn't staring right at them our brains have processed the information around us to figure out that someones there =/.

Granted, everything from the word "maybe" on was random garbage but, meh.

See this was easier back in the '80s


How many angels can Vogue on the head of a pin

a Jedi craves not these things

Read Cat's Cradle.

The above will spell the end of the world.

And "end of the world" is spelled "ICE 9" >.>

Einstein-Podolsky-Rosen Experiment

John Stewart Bell's findings

Pauli's Exclusion principle

the facinating calculations of the late David Bohm

Zero-point energy


..to name a few things that you are welcome to look up on somthing more credible than Wikipedia....

Read up on some of these things and come back with a real argument. Fit the pieces together. I'm not a scientist, but I can read and recognize some logical principles with a clear mind.

The entire point of all of this is to establish the possiblity of NON-LOCALITY. Since everyone get scared wehn you mention religiously tainted words like "SOUL"

. . . and how the fu[i][/i]ck did existentialism get hauled into this?

Beatniks 4tehWin. Vive Camus et Sartre!

If you waste your life trying to find out the meaning of life and find out its meaningless at age 80 than my good friends you have wasted what little time you had to exist trying to figure out why you exist life is short and no one knows whats at the end of that dark tunnel. that long darkness with the white lightmight be a secound ****** your climbing out of. no one knows and we might never know but if nothing is at the end then you better have had a good life meet as many people as ya could tryed as much food as you could and bin with as many women as you could and finaly settled down with one and carry on your name into the future cause the only time someone will rembemer you will be when they do a family tree or somthign alogg those lines have a good life
-J chrobock

I have read up on this subject. On many occasions, in fact.

You're making a huge and unsubstantiated leap from the concept of particle entanglement in Quantum Mechanics to the brain being a "radio reciever for a remote soul".

That's not to say it isn't, or that some aspects of what you are talking about aren't true, but you can't conclude something is true simply because it *might* be true. You seem to be arguing that since we find that some bits that make up particles communicate at a distance (or have an axis that does not lie along normal spacial lines allowing them to seem to be) that this automatically means that there's some remote intelligence/soul/whatever that's working through our physical reality. I simply find that this is a huge leap that's simply not supported by any actual confirmed science.

Quantum entanglement is a prarticle level phenomenon. There's nothing to indicate that it occurs at a larger scale. While this could certainly allow for a physical construct to have a higher dimensional reality, it does not automatically mean that they do, nor does it impart any assumption of a "soul" being involved. You have to remember that all particles have the potential to be entangled, not just the ones in your brain. So why assume that there's any more of a soul connected to your brain/body/heart/whatever then there is connected to my car? You can't differentiate those large objects on a quantum level, so your theory kinda falls flat without a bit more reason *why* a brain should be part of such a thing, but not every other collection of particles in the universe...

I've made a similar point about thoughts, which seem to play a prominant role in Kelvy's conception of the universe. I never understood how thoughts were in any way special since they are composed of the same "stuff" and "action" as everything else in our brains and bodies. It's interesting that you have taken the same point even further "outside of a thought," to outside our bodies althogether.

But I do think we "create" reality (or "actualize it" if you prefer) in the sense that what we perceive is not representative of what's actually "out there," but is instead an interaction between our sensory aparatus and reality.

First, if by thoughts you mean awareness, then please just say "awareness." Unless, of course, you wish to leave open the flexibility of changing your ideas on a whim.

Second, I watched the video. It was an interesting introduction to the dualistic nature of the quantum level, and the role of observation in the outcome of experiments. What's your point with regards to awareness?

You still haven't answered the question. EVERYTHING is made up of quantum particles/waves. What makes awareness so special? Cars and chipmunks and farts all possess the same quantum properties as neurons do (and the ions swimming around the neurons). Why are brains or thoughts or HUMANS so especially important?

All the video really demonstrates is that when we set up experiments to see particles, we see particles. When we set up experiments to see waves, we see waves. As I've said before, to me this only means that our scientific knowledge has stumbled upon something that doesn't quite fit into the established framework. The difference between you and me is that you take a mastabatory flight of fancy into the Spiritual Unknown. I simplly resign myself to the fact that we don't know everything about the universe at the moment. I have confidence that the scientific theory will updgrade iteslef based on experimental data, much as it did when it went from Newtonian to relativistic physics.



Edited, Wed Feb 8 01:17:02 2006 by Jawbox