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my chimp is smarter than your honor studentFollow

#1 Dec 14 2005 at 10:40 AM Rating: Decent
Story

Quote:
Because the chimps could not see inside, they could not tell that the extra steps were unnecessary. As a result, when the chimps were given the box, two-thirds faithfully imitated the scientists to retrieve the food.

The team then used a box with transparent walls and found a strikingly different result. Those chimps could see that the scientists were wasting their time sliding the bolt and tapping the top. None followed suit. They all went straight for the door.

The researchers turned to humans. They showed the transparent box to 16 children from a Scottish nursery school. After putting a sticker in the box, they showed the children how to retrieve it. They included the unnecessary bolt pulling and box tapping.

The scientists placed the sticker back in the box and left the room, telling the children that they could do whatever they thought necessary to retrieve it.

The children could see just as easily as the chimps that it was pointless to slide open the bolt or tap on top of the box. Yet 80 percent did so anyway. "It seemed so spectacular to me," Mr. Lyons said. "It suggested something remarkable was going on."


The story goes on to suggest that children perform the extra steps because they are just imitating the adults and they have a desire to play along and do what the are told. Interesting story.
#2 Dec 14 2005 at 10:55 AM Rating: Decent
Bah, for some reason the link works for me in IE but in Firefox it asks for me to log in to read the article.
#3 Dec 14 2005 at 10:59 AM Rating: Good
Interestingly enough, a good deal of college students have difficulty predicting where the water line would be if you ask them to do so with a glass that is tilted. They did fine if the glass was standing straight up and down. It suggests to researchers that spacial comprehension in humans is something that is learned, and not inherant, something about the ability to mentaly manipulate 3 dimensional objects in space. Some people have greater natural aptitude and learn it more readily, but it still must be learned.

(For those of you who are puzzling at the test scenario, the water line remains parallel to sea level, due to gravity's effects. I found it baffling how someone could not know this, but then I asked my wife and sister the question, and they both got it wrong.)
#4 Dec 14 2005 at 11:07 AM Rating: Decent
That's funny. When I was in high school I used to make sweet tea for the family and the process involved boiling the water, soaking the tea in the hot water, pouring the hot tea water over the sugar to disolve the sugar, and then stirring in cold water.

Everyone in the south knows that tea is best cold and sometimes I was impatient waiting for the fridge to cool off the tea, so I'd add some ice in to the cold water. My mom used to tell me I was watering down the tea. I explained that adding the ice was the same as adding that same amount of water but she didn't believe me. I guess technically water expands when it freezes so if anything I was making the tea stronger because I was adding less water but with the few cubes of ice I was adding it didn't matter.

So, one night I filled up a glass almost to the the very top with water and ice and marked the water level. My mom and sister were convinced that the next morning we would find that the water overflowed the glass when the ice melted. I was amazed that they thought this and they were amazed that I was right.
#5 Dec 14 2005 at 12:19 PM Rating: Good
klyia wrote:
Story

Quote:
Because the chimps could not see inside, they could not tell that the extra steps were unnecessary. As a result, when the chimps were given the box, two-thirds faithfully imitated the scientists to retrieve the food.

The team then used a box with transparent walls and found a strikingly different result. Those chimps could see that the scientists were wasting their time sliding the bolt and tapping the top. None followed suit. They all went straight for the door.

The researchers turned to humans. They showed the transparent box to 16 children from a Scottish nursery school. After putting a sticker in the box, they showed the children how to retrieve it. They included the unnecessary bolt pulling and box tapping.

The scientists placed the sticker back in the box and left the room, telling the children that they could do whatever they thought necessary to retrieve it.

The children could see just as easily as the chimps that it was pointless to slide open the bolt or tap on top of the box. Yet 80 percent did so anyway. "It seemed so spectacular to me," Mr. Lyons said. "It suggested something remarkable was going on."


The story goes on to suggest that children perform the extra steps because they are just imitating the adults and they have a desire to play along and do what the are told. Interesting story.


Doesn't surprise me one bit. You did say you were in the South right? You do realize that is "Bush country"?

Edited, Wed Dec 14 12:23:00 2005 by Elderon
#6 Dec 14 2005 at 12:33 PM Rating: Decent
Elderon the Wise wrote:

Doesn't surprise me one bit. You did say you were in the South right? You do realize that is "Bush country"?


Don't blame me!

Funny story though, the day after the 2004 election my wife had an Arbonne party at our house. It was her, a bunch of her friends, and my aunt. My aunt is a lawyer and her husband is prosecuting attorney for 3 counties. She had just lost the circuit judge election to a republican and with Bush winning the presidential election it a double-whammy.

During the party my wife's friends (who all voted for Bush) found out we voted for Kerry. They started calling us "sinner" and other nonsense. I know it sounds retarded (it is) and like something out of a cheesy movie but it really happened. My aunt paused for a second and replied: "Well, I guess we should just be happy that we are safe from all that gay marriage now."

Probably only mildly amusing reading about it now, but the point is not everyone in the south is for Bush! And the gay marriage thing was a bigger factor that I could have imagined even among all of these non-religious people.
#7 Dec 14 2005 at 12:37 PM Rating: Decent
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3,101 posts
Quote:
I guess technically water expands when it freezes so if anything I was making the tea stronger because I was adding less water but with the few cubes of ice I was adding it didn't matter.


Water is actually the only substance, that I know of at least, that expands when it freezes. Water behaves normally, in that it's molecules start to compact as it cools from gas to water but, when it reaches tempratures close to freezing it starts to expand, and at freezing tempratures expands greatly. Below a certain temprature water does start to contract again.

Edited, Wed Dec 14 12:41:37 2005 by fenderputy
#8 Dec 14 2005 at 12:43 PM Rating: Good
Quote:
Water is actually the only substance, that I know of at least, that expands when it freezes. Water behaves normally, in that it's molecules start to compact as it cools from gas to water but, when it reaches tempratures close to freezing it starts to expand, and at freezing tempratures expands greatly. Below a certain temprature water does start to contract again.

Austensibly to allow for a layer of air in between water and ice so that the water can still oxygenate and fish don't die.
#9 Dec 14 2005 at 12:49 PM Rating: Decent
His Excellency MoebiusLord wrote:

Austensibly to allow for a layer of air in between water and ice so that the water can still oxygenate and fish don't die.


This also causes the ice to float to the top of the water since it is less dense than the water. This layer of ice on top provides insulation for the remaining water preventing the entire body of water from freezing and allowing the fish to stay alive.

At least that's how I heard it.
#10 Dec 14 2005 at 12:50 PM Rating: Decent
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3,101 posts
His Excellency MoebiusLord wrote:

Austensibly to allow for a layer of air in between water and ice so that the water can still oxygenate and fish don't die.


This I did not know, although it makes complete sence. Sometimes coming to this place can be a learning experience. Smiley: schooled



It's awsome how things sort of work out like that when observing natrue.

Quote:
This also causes the ice to float to the top of the water since it is less dense than the water. This layer of ice on top provides insulation for the remaining water preventing the entire body of water from freezing and allowing the fish to stay alive.



Water is also prevented from freezing due to pressure constraints, minerals in the water (affects density) and movement from currents.



Edited, Wed Dec 14 13:02:26 2005 by fenderputy
#11 Dec 14 2005 at 1:42 PM Rating: Decent
His Excellency MoebiusLord wrote:
I found it baffling how someone could not know this, but then I asked my wife and sister the question, and they both got it wrong.)


So are you astonished that spatial comprehension is learned or are you just calling your wife and sister an idiot..
#12 Dec 14 2005 at 2:29 PM Rating: Good
Quote:
So are you astonished that spatial comprehension is learned or are you just calling your wife and sister an idiot..

A little of both, actually. Nice pick up.
#13 Dec 14 2005 at 8:14 PM Rating: Good
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fenderputy the Shady wrote:
His Excellency MoebiusLord wrote:

Austensibly to allow for a layer of air in between water and ice so that the water can still oxygenate and fish don't die.


This I did not know, although it makes complete sence. Sometimes coming to this place can be a learning experience.

It's awsome how things sort of work out like that when observing natrue.


And honestly, the whole "floating ice" thing is a far stronger arguement for ID then anything found in biology. But don't tell the religious nutballs that. Next thing you know they'll be demanding ID be taught in chemistry class...
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