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Ode to nice GuysFollow

#1 Dec 14 2005 at 6:36 AM Rating: Decent
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i was checking out random forums earlier and i found this. in my personal veiw it is one of the most truthful articles i've ever read. probably because everything stated in it is true in my case. read it, state your opinion.

Quote:
Ode to the Nice Guys
This rant was written for the Wharton Undergraduate Journal

This is a tribute to the nice guys. The nice guys that finish last, that never become more than friends, that endure hours of whining and ******** about what ******** guys are, while disproving the very point. This is dedicated to those guys who always provide a shoulder to lean on but restrain themselves to tentative hugs, those guys who hold open doors and give reassuring pats on the back and sit patiently outside the changing room at department stores. This is in honor of the guys that obligingly reiterate how cute/beautiful/smart/funny/sexy their female friends are at the appropriate moment, because they know most girls need that litany of support. This is in honor of the guys with open minds, with laid-back attitudes, with honest concern. This is in honor of the guys who respect a girl’s every facet, from her privacy to her theology to her clothing style.

This is for the guys who escort their drunk, bewildered female friends back from parties and never take advantage once they’re at her door, for the guys who accompany girls to bars as buffers against the rest of the creepy male population, for the guys who know a girl is fishing for compliments but give them out anyway, for the guys who always play by the rules in a game where the rules favor cheaters, for the guys who are accredited as boyfriend material but somehow don’t end up being boyfriends, for all the nice guys who are overlooked, underestimated, and unappreciated, for all the nice guys who are manipulated, misled, and unjustly abandoned, this is for you.

This is for that time she left 40 urgent messages on your cell phone, and when you called her back, she spent three hours painstakingly dissecting two sentences her boyfriend said to her over dinner. And even though you thought her boyfriend was a chump and a jerk, you assured her that it was all ok and she shouldn’t worry about it. This is for that time she interrupted the best killing spree you’d ever orchestrated in GTA3 to rant about a rumor that romantically linked her and the guy she thinks is the most repulsive person in the world. And even though you thought it was immature and you had nothing against the guy, you paused the game for two hours and helped her concoct a counter-rumor to spread around the floor. This is also for that time she didn’t have a date, so after numerous vows that there was nothing “serious” between the two of you, she dragged you to a party where you knew nobody, the beer was awful, and she flirted shamelessly with you, justifying each fit of reckless teasing by announcing to everyone: “oh, but we’re just friends!” And even though you were invited purely as a symbolic warm body for her ego, you went anyways. Because you’re nice like that.

The nice guys don’t often get credit where credit is due. And perhaps more disturbing, the nice guys don’t seem to get laid as often as they should. And I wish I could logically explain this trend, but I can’t. From what I have observed on campus and what I have learned from talking to friends at other schools and in the workplace, the only conclusion I can form is that many girls are just illogical, manipulative ******** but this is not their fault, society makes them that way. Many of them claim they just want to date a nice guy, but when presented with such a specimen, they say irrational, confusing things such as “oh, he’s too nice to date” or “he would be a good boyfriend but he’s not for me” or “he already puts up with so much from me, I couldn’t possibly ask him out!” or the most frustrating of all: “no, it would ruin our friendship.” Yet, they continue to lament the lack of datable men in the world, and they expect their too-nice-to-date male friends to sympathize and apologize for the men that are jerks. Sorry, guys, girls like that are beyond my ability to fathom. I can’t figure out why the connection breaks down between what they say (I want a nice guy!) and what they do (I’m going to sleep with this complete *** now!). But one thing I can do, is say that the nice-guy-finishes-last phenomenon doesn’t last forever. There are definitely many girls who grow out of that train of thought and realize they should be dating the nice guys, not taking them for granted. The tricky part is finding those girls, and even trickier, finding the ones that are single.

So, until those girls are found, I propose a toast to all the nice guys. You know who you are, and I know you’re sick of hearing yourself described as ubiquitously nice. But the truth of the matter is, the world needs your patience in the department store, your holding open of doors, your party escorting services, your propensity to be a sucker for a pretty smile. For all the crazy, inane, absurd things you tolerate, for all the situations where you are the faceless, nameless hero, my accolades, my acknowledgement, and my gratitude go out to you. You do have credibility in this society, and your well deserved vindication is coming.


are you one of these guys like me or am i stuck alone in this position?
#2 Dec 14 2005 at 6:54 AM Rating: Decent
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I read a funny comparison once.

I think it went a little like this:

Quote:
A woman has a close male friend. This means that he is probably interested in her, which is why he hangs around so much. She sees him strictly as a friend. This always starts out with, you're a great guy, but I don't like you in that way. This is roughly the equivalent for the guy of going to a job interview and the company saying, You have a great resume, you have all the qualifications we are looking for, but we're not going to hire you. We will, however, use your resume as the basis for comparison for all other applicants. But, we're going to hire somebody who is far less qualified and is probably an alcoholic. And if he doesn't work out, we'll hire somebody else, but still not you. In fact, we will never hire you. But we will call you from time to time to complain about the person that we hired.
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#3 Dec 14 2005 at 7:24 AM Rating: Decent
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LOL, i fell off my chair. perfect comparison
#4 Dec 14 2005 at 9:34 AM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
or the most frustrating of all: “no, it would ruin our friendship.”


Been there, said that.

But here's the thing: relationships, including friendships, are vitally important to women and girls. They're our lifeblood.

I'll say it again: women tend not to be risk takers. It's desperately hard to risk a solid friendship for an iffy romantic relationship, especially when that compelling frisson isn't there anyway.
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#5 Dec 14 2005 at 11:05 AM Rating: Good
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Been posted many times before, but it's apropos:

http://www.intellectualwhores.com/masterladder.html


#6 Dec 14 2005 at 11:44 AM Rating: Excellent
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Samira wrote:
I'll say it again: women tend not to be risk takers.


Nice-guyism happens when the men tend not to be risk takers, either.

Yexo; if you're pissed off about your situation, change it. Try starting a relationship with a girl you're interested in. If she moves to put you in the friend bucket, tell her you're not interested in being that kind of friend for her. Don't be such a chump.
#7 Dec 14 2005 at 12:43 PM Rating: Decent
I have always found that women, in their teens to their mid to late 20's fall in this category.

and its not that they dont want to take the risk, its actually opposite. They want the bad boy, because they want the excitement, and the unexpectedness of the kind of guy. you dont know if your gonna get flower, or get smacked around a bit, go for a long ride at sunset on his Harley or have some Freaky Circus Sex. they want to think they can change the guy into a good person, therefore becomming that guys savior, and the subject of his everliving gratefullness and love. as they grow older, they find the lack of stability to be a turn off, rather than a turn on. and thats when they start looking at the niceguy in a romantic light.

of course thats just my observations, and i could be wrong, but thats pretty much what it seems like to me
#8 Dec 14 2005 at 12:51 PM Rating: Excellent
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You're not good at the whole reading thing, are you? I said that women tend to be unwilling to risk existing relationships.
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#9 Dec 14 2005 at 1:10 PM Rating: Decent
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Wingchild wrote:

Yexo; if you're pissed off about your situation, change it. Try starting a relationship with a girl you're interested in. If she moves to put you in the friend bucket, tell her you're not interested in being that kind of friend for her. Don't be such a chump.


Exactly! It's all about confidence. You already have enough friends, you don't need anymore.


Tricky's link has been saved on my favorites for at least a year now. It's an awsome read. By the way being a nice guy isn't bad. You just have to be confident and cocky in the way you present yourself. Chicks will think you're a bad boy and fall for you when they see your soft side.

Edited, Wed Dec 14 13:17:28 2005 by fenderputy
#10 Dec 14 2005 at 1:12 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
and its not that they dont want to take the risk, its actually opposite. They want the bad boy, because they want the excitement, and the unexpectedness of the kind of guy.
They don't go for the "bad guy" because they like taking risks, they go for the bad guy cause they think they can change them.
#11 Dec 14 2005 at 1:15 PM Rating: Decent
fenderputy the Shady wrote:
They don't go for the "bad guy" because they like taking risks, they go for the bad guy cause they think they can change them.


I thought they did it to **** off their parents?
#12 Dec 14 2005 at 1:17 PM Rating: Decent
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klyia wrote:
fenderputy the Shady wrote:
They don't go for the "bad guy" because they like taking risks, they go for the bad guy cause they think they can change them.


I thought they did it to **** off their parents?


Only if their parents are uptight prudes.

Edited, Wed Dec 14 13:20:47 2005 by fenderputy
#13 Dec 14 2005 at 1:34 PM Rating: Decent
Quote:
You're not good at the whole reading thing, are you? I said that women tend to be unwilling to risk existing relationships.


or maybe i was replying to this

Quote:
I'll say it again: women tend not to be risk takers.


Quote:
They don't go for the "bad guy" because they like taking risks, they go for the bad guy cause they think they can change them.


if you read further, i think that i might have mentioned that too
#14 Dec 14 2005 at 1:37 PM Rating: Good
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Oh, you were replying to THIS?

Quote:
I'll say it again: women tend not to be risk takers. It's desperately hard to risk a solid friendship for an iffy romantic relationship, especially when that compelling frisson isn't there anyway.


Well, why didn't you say so, fu[i][/i]ckslap?
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#15 Dec 14 2005 at 1:48 PM Rating: Excellent
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I had a friend in college who was smart, pretty, funny... hell, name a positive attribute in a mate and she probably filled it. We spent about four or five years as good friends, hanging out, going out, alternating back and forth in our own relationships (she'd have a bf, then break up as I started dating someone) and never making a move to take it beyond that. Even after college we stayed close and when she'd find herself in the Chicago area (she lived downstate) we'd spend a day together.

After about a year of us living in different parts of the state, she called me with news. First off, she was moving up by me. Secondly, she was doing so because she had gotten engaged. I jokingly remarked that now my dreams of marrying her were dashed and she very plainly said "You know, I always wondered why you never asked me out."

There's various reasons why, namely that one of us always seemed to be dating someone but, honestly, I could have gotten in during one of her periods of just starting to date someone. Truth is, I never figured she thought of me as anything else and I was comfortable being friends with her. Even in retrospect, though there's always the question of "I wonder how that'd would've worked out...", I don't especially regret it. My point, however, is that she was wondering and that she would have said "yes" if I had ever bothered to ask. As it goes: nothing ventured, nothing gained.

As a postscript, after she married, she and her husband went to Europe for a season then moved to Florida and we lost touch. Which is a shame because she was a good friend and I'm sure she'd be delighted to know my current circumstances today.
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#16 Dec 14 2005 at 1:49 PM Rating: Decent
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Banter wrote:
Quote:
They don't go for the "bad guy" because they like taking risks, they go for the bad guy cause they think they can change them.


if you read further, i think that i might have mentioned that too



So fuc[/b]king what! That still does nothing for your case. Women are not risk takers. It's a socially constructed behavior, but they are not risk takers. Saying that women are risk takers because they date ****** men is retarded. Women are nurturers and are risk adverse. It’s in the games they play, the movies they watch, the way they are brought up and the role models they see. **** man, it’s even in religion. In fact … people that consistently go for someone, when they know that someone is bad for them, have problems that stem beyond a desire to take risks.



Edited, Wed Dec 14 13:54:05 2005 by fenderputy
#17 Dec 14 2005 at 1:52 PM Rating: Default
Quote:
Oh, you were replying to THIS?


Quote:

I'll say it again: women tend not to be risk takers. It's desperately hard to risk a solid friendship for an iffy romantic relationship, especially when that compelling frisson isn't there anyway.





Well, why didn't you say so, *********


I may not be good at the reading thing, but what are your comprehensions skills like? I just told you what I was replying too, and yet, you still want to argue over it. Why keep banging your head into the wall, when you know the wall is gonna win? At least you got perseverance.


#18 Dec 14 2005 at 1:58 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
Even in retrospect, though there's always the question of "I wonder how that'd would've worked out...", I don't especially regret it. My point, however, is that she was wondering and that she would have said "yes" if I had ever bothered to ask. As it goes: nothing ventured, nothing gained.

And she was equally foolish for relying on Victorian rules of dating ettiquete. Not that that's something one can take any solace in...


#19 Dec 14 2005 at 2:04 PM Rating: Default
What a bunch of p*ssies you all are.

Women that play the friend card are doing nothing more than putting the d*ck on lay away. They know they can have you anytime they want so they do their thing with the risky guy and when that falls apart they come to you for solace and to inflate their ego.

Achileez
#20 Dec 14 2005 at 2:04 PM Rating: Excellent
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trickybeck wrote:
And she was equally foolish for relying on Victorian rules of dating ettiquete. Not that that's something one can take any solace in...
Indeed. Which I guess was part of my point: If you're interested, don't think they're going to make the first move. Show some initiative.
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Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#21 Dec 14 2005 at 2:08 PM Rating: Decent
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Jophiel wrote:
trickybeck wrote:
And she was equally foolish for relying on Victorian rules of dating ettiquete. Not that that's something one can take any solace in...
Indeed. Which I guess was part of my point: If you're interested, don't think they're going to make the first move. Show some initiative.


I lucked out here. My SO showed most of the initiative. I'm sort of a paradox in that, while I appear cocky, I tend to get nervous and fail to follow through. I'm glad she showed more initiative though. She's awsome.
#22 Dec 14 2005 at 5:54 PM Rating: Excellent
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Women aren't born knowing what's good for them, and sadly, the culture throws a lot of romanticism our way. Everyone has their maturity plateau to reach before they're reay for a certain level of relationship. If you happen to be a nice guy who likes a girl who's still experimenting, tough luck.
#23 Dec 14 2005 at 6:25 PM Rating: Excellent
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I did the nice guy thing for a while. Then I turned bitter and became an as[/i]shole. Neither has worked out very well. Smiley: lol

[i]Edited, Wed Dec 14 18:27:46 2005 by Kakar
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#24 Dec 14 2005 at 7:00 PM Rating: Good
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Well, I sympathize (I've definitely been there) but to play the devil's advocate here:

It's often the wrong approach to try to get with a girl by just becoming her friend first. Listening, offering advice, and the like, aren't ways to show that you're interested in somebody. They're things that friends do for each other, and thusly, you'll often just get solidified as a friend in her mind.

It's a shame, but yeah, 90% of the time the girl isn't going to just up and ask you out. So if you don't make it abundandtly clear that you're romantically interested (best done by literally asking the girl out) you've got no one to blame but yourself if they think of you as a friend, and go out with someone else.

That "bad guy" is likely going out with the girl not because of some subconscious need of hers to rebel, or because she doesn't know what she wants, but rather because he simply asked her out first.

Thats the sad truth of it, I think.
#25 Dec 14 2005 at 9:26 PM Rating: Decent
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I had a great guy friend. We'd been best buds for a couple years at least until one night we found ourselves together, a bit tipsy, and dancing at a rather romantic club. I made a move (he claims he did).

I married the guy, and haven't regretted it yet. Smiley: grin
(and it didn't ruin the friendship a bit)
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#26 Dec 14 2005 at 9:29 PM Rating: Decent
Elinda wrote:
I had a great guy friend. We'd been best buds for a couple years at least until one night we found ourselves together, a bit tipsy, and dancing at a rather romantic club. I made a move (he claims he did).

I married the guy, and haven't regretted it yet.


This proves the old saying "Friends are friends and pals are pals, but buddies sleep together!"
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