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Lethal Injection of Crips co-founderFollow

#1 Dec 13 2005 at 8:06 AM Rating: Excellent
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SAN QUENTIN, Calif. - Convicted killer Stanley Tookie Williams, the Crips gang co-founder whose case stirred a national debate about capital punishment versus the possibility of redemption, was executed Tuesday morning.

Williams, 51, died at 12:35 a.m. Officials at San Quentin State Prison seemed to have trouble injecting the lethal mixture into his muscular arm. As they struggled to find a vein, Williams looked up repeatedly and appeared frustrated, shaking his head at supporters and other witnesses.

"You doing that right?" it sounded as if he asked one of the men with a needle.

After he was declared dead, his supporters shouted in unison: "The state of California just killed an innocent man," as they walked out of the chamber.

The case became the state's highest-profile execution in decades. Hollywood stars and capital punishment foes argued that Williams' sentence should be commuted to life in prison because he had made amends by writing children's books about the dangers of gangs and violence.

In the days leading up to the execution, state and federal courts refused to reopen his case. Monday, Gov.
Arnold Schwarzenegger denied Williams' request for clemency, suggesting that his supposed change of heart was not genuine because he had not shown any real remorse for the killings committed by the Crips.

"Is Williams' redemption complete and sincere, or is it just a hollow promise?" Schwarzenegger wrote. "Without an apology and atonement for these senseless and brutal killings, there can be no redemption."

Williams was condemned in 1981 for gunning down convenience store clerk Albert Owens, 26, at a 7-Eleven in Whittier and killing Yen-I Yang, 76, Tsai-Shai Chen Yang, 63, and the couple's daughter Yu-Chin Yang Lin, 43, at the Los Angeles motel they owned. Williams claimed he was innocent.

Witnesses at the trial said he boasted about the killings, stating "You should have heard the way he sounded when I shot him." Williams then made a growling noise and laughed for five to six minutes, according to the transcript that the governor referenced in his denial of clemency.

About 1,000 death penalty opponents and a few death penalty supporters gathered outside the prison to await the execution. Singer Joan Baez, M*A*S*H actor Mike Farrell and the Rev.
Jesse Jackson were among the celebrities who protested the execution.

"Tonight is planned, efficient, calculated, antiseptic, cold-blooded murder and I think everyone who is here is here to try to enlist the morality and soul of this country," said Baez, who sang "Swing Low, Sweet Chariot" on a small plywood stage set up just outside the gates.

A contingent of 40 people who had walked the approximately 25 miles from San Francisco held signs calling for an end to "state-sponsored murder." But others, including Debbie Lynch, 52, of Milpitas, said they wanted to honor the victims.

"If he admitted to it, the governor might have had a reason to spare his life," Lynch said.

Former Crips member Donald Archie, 51, was among those attending a candlelight vigil outside a federal building in Los Angeles. He said he would work to spread Williams' anti-gang message.

"The work ain't going to stop," said Archie, who said he was known as "Sweetback" as a young Crips member. "Tookie's body might lay down, but his spirit ain't going nowhere. I want everyone to know that, the spirit lives."

Among the celebrities who took up Williams' cause were Jamie Foxx, who played the gang leader in a cable movie about Williams; rapper Snoop Dogg, himself a former Crip; Sister Helen Prejean, the nun depicted in "Dead Man Walking"; and Bianca Jagger. During Williams' 24 years on death row, a Swiss legislator, college professors and others nominated him for the Nobel Prizes in peace and literature.

"There is no part of me that existed then that exists now," Williams said recently during an interview with The Associated Press.

"I haven't had a lot of joy in my life. But in here," he said, pointing to his heart, "I'm happy. I am peaceful in here. I am joyful in here."

Williams' statements did not sway some relatives of his victims, including Lora Owens, Albert Owens' stepmother. In the days before his death, she was among the outspoken advocates who argued the execution should go forward.

"(Williams) chose to shoot Albert in the back twice. He didn't do anything to deserve it. He begged for his life," she said during a recent interview. "He shot him not once, but twice in the back. ... I believe Williams needs to get the punishment he was given when he was tried and sentenced."


Now while I don't support the death penalty, the argument seems weak. How can you argue that this was an innocent man? Does redemption in the eyes of God truly make you innocent of any past trangressions, or are you still liable under the law of man?
That's what intrigues me. That people believe being sorry for something (which he never said, it seems, it seems that he only admitted to being a different person) or changing your life around makes you somehow invulnerable to punishment. Granted, the punishment could have been life in prison just as equally if only he had made some admission of guilt and a statement of repentance. Why wouldn't he do that? Legal reasons?
#2 Dec 13 2005 at 8:09 AM Rating: Good


If you look at the "Save St. Tookie" thread, there is a statement where he apoligized from his website.

Also, I think when they are saying he is innocent, they are referring to three (I think) men that came forward from prison yesterday who said he was framed.

#3 Dec 13 2005 at 8:09 AM Rating: Good
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Yesterday? Damn procrastinators.
#4 Dec 13 2005 at 8:52 AM Rating: Good
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It was odd looking at news websites like CNN.com because they were basically having a "countdown to execution" marathon and seemed to be chomping at the bit to announce it.

At first it was "Hours until the scheduled execution" then "an hour till the execution" and finally "The execution is just minutes away, stay tuned" and finally "OMG you heard it hear first he's dead".
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#5 Dec 13 2005 at 9:30 AM Rating: Good
Katarine wrote:
If you look at the "Save St. Tookie" thread, there is a statement where he apoligized from his website

So what?
A Good Banger wrote:
So today I apologize to you all -- the children of America and South Africa -- who must cope every day with dangerous street gangs. I no longer participate in the so-called gangster lifestyle, and I deeply regret that I ever did.

This is not an apology for the crime he was executed for. No where has he ever accepted responsibility for that.
#6 Dec 13 2005 at 9:39 AM Rating: Excellent
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No where has he ever accepted responsibility for that


He claimed to be innocent of those crimes, didn't he? Why admit to something you have claimed to not do?

It is quite clear that this man was a violent offender with a string of convictions and violent behavior that he encouraged in his gang members. He should have been in jail, but for which crime? He was quite simply the catalyst for a massive violent crime spree.
I do wonder, if he did or did not kill those people, who else may he have killed or injured and not been convicted for?

He was tried and convicted of murder, and sentended to death. If you beleive in your justice system, you should support this verdict. But then ... we all know how suspect some rulings can be, even in the land of the free (and british courts).

We revoked the death penalty in the UK after we tried and hung an innocent man. He was tried and found guilty by our supposed flawless courts. Obviously our system was shown to be flawed and it was deemed that we could never again condem someone to death in case their innocence was later proven.

God help america if this man is later found out to be so .. it would be a melting pot of racial problems arising .. but I doubt that will happen. Your administration knows what it would face.
#7 Dec 13 2005 at 9:39 AM Rating: Excellent
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Katarine wrote:
If you look at the "Save St. Tookie" thread, there is a statement where he apoligized from his website.

Also, I think when they are saying he is innocent, they are referring to three (I think) men that came forward from prison yesterday who said he was framed.


He apologized for his gang activities, but not specifically for the murders he committed.

I'm not sure why we should listen to jailbirds saying he was framed, when the argument is that the jailbirds that framed him must have been lying because they were criminals.

And no, I think personal redemption, if it happens, does not atone for crimes committed in this life. Remorse, maybe; but there was none.

I oppose the death penaly as well, but it is the law of the land and the sentence for his crimes. Short of capricious mercy I could see no reason to spare him.
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#8 Dec 13 2005 at 9:46 AM Rating: Good
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Williams was condemned in 1981 for gunning down convenience store clerk Albert Owens, 26, at a 7-Eleven in Whittier and killing Yen-I Yang, 76, Tsai-Shai Chen Yang, 63, and the couple's daughter Yu-Chin Yang Lin, 43, at the Los Angeles motel they owned. Williams claimed he was innocent.

Witnesses at the trial said he boasted about the killings, stating "You should have heard the way he sounded when I shot him." Williams then made a growling noise and laughed for five to six minutes, according to the transcript that the governor referenced in his denial of clemency.


I'm a fairly liberal guy but I am conservative when it comes to crime. I say he forfeit his life when he killed those people. His redemption came too little, too late. Maybe now the families of the victims can find some closure.

Another rabid animal put down - simple as that.
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#9 Dec 13 2005 at 10:18 AM Rating: Decent
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As much as the media wanted you to believe, there just wasn't that much support for sparing this man's life. Despite NPR's "powerful hollywood stars" presence (See also Al Sharpton), Ahnold did not bow to pressure and maintained support for the Justice system.

Redemption does not mean "Get out of jail free".

All in a day's work I guess.

Quote:
Another rabid animal put down - simple as that.


Smiley: clap Exactly.
#10 Dec 13 2005 at 10:25 AM Rating: Good
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How do we know he was redeemed? For all we know he's burning in the firey pits of Hell with other killers, like Hitler Godwins!

Meh, he got what he had coming. And since lots seem inclined to state their support/lack thereof of the death penalty, I'm in support of it. I also find it amusing when people say they oppose the death penalty but then something like this comes around and those same people say "Yeah! Give him the gas baby!"
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#11 Dec 13 2005 at 11:04 AM Rating: Good
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I am of the vein that is against the death penalty. However from what I have read the guy seemed to be violent, the evidence against him was solid and the evidence against was weak which is why all the circuit appeal courts threw them out.

So the man had an epiphany while incarcerated and waiting for his execution? I don't believe that negates the acts he commited.

Also news

SAN QUENTIN, California (CNN) -- Death did not come quickly for Stanley Tookie Williams, the co-founder of the violent Crips street gang who was executed by lethal injection early Tuesday for the 1979 robbery murders of four people in Los Angeles.

Witnesses and prison officials said Williams appeared to grow impatient as prison staffers searched for several minutes for a vein in his muscular left arThey said inserting the IVs to administer the lethal chemicals took nearly 20 minutes, with staff having particular difficulty getting a needle into Williams' left arm.

.....

Witness Crystal Carreon of the Sacramento Bee said Williams was restless during the preparations.

Another witness, Kim Curtis, a reporter for The Associated Press, said Williams appeared to say, "You doing that right?" as prison staffers searched for a vein.


http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/12/13/williams.execution/index.html
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#12 Dec 13 2005 at 11:14 AM Rating: Good
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As harsh as I may have sounded earlier, I am also very concerned about wrongful imprisonment - I honestly don't believe that's the case here, but I'm glad that DNA and other modern forensic science is aiding in the release of wrongfully convicted men from prison.

Thank Bob for the forensic science, because we all know we have a flawed judicial system - when it works, great, but when it doesn't, the consequences are heavy.

Just saying.

**Edited for typo**

Edited, Tue Dec 13 11:49:03 2005 by Smoggy
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#13 Dec 13 2005 at 11:22 AM Rating: Good
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Singer Joan Baez was there? Why am I not surprised.

wouldn't a bullet or some rope been cheaper?

Edited, Tue Dec 13 11:26:03 2005 by niobia
#14 Dec 13 2005 at 11:35 AM Rating: Good
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Smiley: deadhorse

[i]There should be a dead Tookie smiley.[/i]
#15 Dec 13 2005 at 12:01 PM Rating: Good
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AegisGoat wrote:
Smiley: deadhorse

[i]There should be a dead Tookie smiley.[/i]

Give me a break, hater. I've been on a leave of absence.
#16 Dec 13 2005 at 1:12 PM Rating: Good
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“Redemption” should not be a reason for exemption from the death penalty because one, it undermines the foundation of criminal law, and two, it can be faked just to get out of dying for the crimes you have committed.

The purpose of criminal law is to deter future injustice by punishing past crimes today. In other words punishing people prevents future crime. By enabling guilty people to get out of punishments after the fact, you undermine the deterrence that is the basic premise of all criminal law. Even if the individual’s redemption is real, reducing his punishment would still undermine the deterrence of future crimes that his punishment provides. The consistent punishment of individuals for crimes they have been found guilty of, is primary goal of the penal system, all other goals including rehabilitation are secondary and should not interfere with the first goal.
#17 Dec 14 2005 at 3:26 PM Rating: Decent
The Glorious Atomicflea wrote:
[quote]

Now while I don't support the death penalty, the argument seems weak. How can you argue that this was an innocent man? Does redemption in the eyes of God truly make you innocent of any past trangressions, or are you still liable under the law of man?That's what intrigues me. That people believe being sorry for something (which he never said, it seems, it seems that he only admitted to being a different person) or changing your life around makes you somehow invulnerable to punishment. Granted, the punishment could have been life in prison just as equally if only he had made some admission of guilt and a statement of repentance. Why wouldn't he do that? Legal reasons?


Not attacking you AF, just using what you said to expand on, in an opinion of my own.

What if you don’t believe in God, who says there is a God. How can you be redeemed in the eyes of something that is not even proven to exist.

What ever happened to the "No Church & State" amendment? (2nd amendment, IIRC)

Further more, we take way too long to carry out the DP in Cali. I understand we don’t want to send an innocent man to death, so maybe 5 years or so is a good time to give for appeals and such, but almost 30 years, that is a bit ridiculous, especially if it is a clear cut case.

#18 Dec 14 2005 at 3:55 PM Rating: Excellent
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Banter wrote:
What ever happened to the "No Church & State" amendment? (2nd amendment, IIRC)
No, that's the "Nuns with Guns" amendment.
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#19 Dec 14 2005 at 3:58 PM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
Banter wrote:
What ever happened to the "No Church & State" amendment? (2nd amendment, IIRC)
No, that's the "Nuns with Guns" amendment.


The bill signed by William Jefferson Clinton requiring Nuns to make their tits useful was much more interesting.
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#20 Dec 14 2005 at 8:50 PM Rating: Excellent
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fhrugby wrote:
“Redemption” should not be a reason for exemption from the death penalty because one, it undermines the foundation of criminal law, and two, it can be faked just to get out of dying for the crimes you have committed.


And it's a doubly dangerous concept in death penalty cases, given the extremely long time that typically passes between the sentence and the execution. It's too easy to point to that guy who's been in prison for 20-30 years and say he's reformed. It's easy to forget the crime that was commited that got him there in the first place.

Tookie Williams was not sentenced to death for forming the Crips. He was sentenced to death for killing 4 people in cold blood.

The problem I have with most of the arguments for clemency was that they were mostly based on his later reversal (or apparent reversal) on the gang issue. But this implies that had he just been a trucker who liked to kill people at rest stops, he'd have no angle of clemency and no one would support him, but because he formed a gang, and then later wrote a book about the dangers of joining a gang, this somehow erases the crimes he commited.


That's kinda backwards IMO. The only message it can possibly send is that if you join a gang, people might feel sorry for you later on and be more likely to forgive you for your crimes. The message we should be sending is that even the most powerful gang leader in the world, when caught and convicted of murder, will get the needle. Just like anyone else. A gang will not protect you. It is not a viable path to take. That's what we need to drum into the heads of kids who might be thinking of joining one. If we'd granted William's clemency purely for his actions related to gangs, we'd have been sending exactly the wrong message.


There was nothing on which to grant clemency to Williams. The decision to execute him was made legally by his jury when he was tried for those crimes. Since no new evidence has come to light, nor anything else to call that sentence in question, there's no reason to reverse that decision.
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#21 Dec 14 2005 at 9:59 PM Rating: Excellent
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Not only do I believe in Capital punishment, but I believe convicted killers should be beaten publicly and humiliated on national t.v.

If there was a serious fear of being punished for committing a crime, then less people would committ crime. Hell, after the caning incident a few years ago we all learned that no one sprays grafitti in small asian countries. Why? Because a public *** whipping ensues.

Get rid of the death penalty and you the amount of murders will increase...so people will still die, but it will just be the innocent ones.

Tacosid
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#22 Dec 15 2005 at 2:17 AM Rating: Good
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/sob for St. Tookie

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#23 Dec 15 2005 at 2:34 AM Rating: Excellent
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My topic was totally cooler than this one. It's called being "fasionably late."

Pshaw. I'd expect you to know about these things, Flea'lo.
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