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#1 Dec 09 2005 at 12:00 PM Rating: Good
As many of you might know, even if you care not to, Canada is being forced to have a holiday election. At first, this was just a pain in the ***, but the decision seemed pretty straight forward. The Conservatives wanna be like Bush, and the Liberals, although corrupt have done a decent job with things like putting some cash back into the school system, and the NDP has a bad track record with Rae days and all. So I figured, choosing the better of the 3 evils would be rather simple this time around.

Now that fu[/b]cker Paul Martin has added a new item to his agenda. The banning of all hand guns. Last night on the news they featured two people, one for the banning and one against. The one against was an older man who likes to travel all over Canada and the US to compete in marksmanship tournaments. The one for the banning was some ***** who's boyfriend was killed in the crossfire of a gang shooting.

I fail to see how banning legitimate handguns will solve the problem. To be very clear, the laws about handguns are clear. If you have a registered firearm and it is stolen due to improper care by the owner, the owner can face up to 2 years in prison for failure to secure his/her firearm. The laws are already very tight for the law abiding citizens. How is denying the sportsman keeping guns away from the thugs? It isn't. I think this is just a dirty ploy to get the Conservative voters to vote Liberal.

Paul Martin should get his head out of his *** so he can go fu[b]
ck himself. Now I know why I fu[b][/b]cking hate politics. I think I am going to vote for the marijuana party. Smiley: frown
#2 Dec 09 2005 at 12:05 PM Rating: Good
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You should shoot him with a registered handgun, because everyone loves irony.
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#3 Dec 09 2005 at 12:07 PM Rating: Excellent
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I waited to post here, just to see if I could work up any feeling about Canada one way or another, and I came to the conclusion that I really want some blueberry juice.
#4 Dec 09 2005 at 12:08 PM Rating: Excellent
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Where do you get blueberry juice? It seems like it would be a bit too sweet.
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#5 Dec 09 2005 at 12:09 PM Rating: Good
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Talk about a huge political misstep.

He was trying to earn brownie points from the whole gun violence in Toronto thing. Major backfire because it is implausible, knee jerk reaction and canadians are bright enough to see it for what is was. Of course if it helps him win/secure Toronto and southern ontario over it might just be worth it.

Seriously though things arent looking good for the liberals Smiley: frown
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#6 Dec 09 2005 at 12:09 PM Rating: Good
I'm thinking my way around this is to purchase a house somewhere in the US and just keep my guns there. What sucks is I'll have to cross the border to go to a range. Smiley: frown
#7 Dec 09 2005 at 12:10 PM Rating: Good
bodhisattva wrote:
Talk about a huge political misstep.

He was trying to earn brownie points from the whole gun violence in Toronto thing. Major backfire because it is implausible, knee jerk reaction and canadians are bright enough to see it for what is was. Of course if it helps him win/secure Toronto and southern ontario over it might just be worth it.

Seriously though things arent looking good for the liberals Smiley: frown


/agreed

To add to that, I am not sure how much of Southern Ontario he is going to get. Maybe the bleeding hearts, but in a nutshell, that's where all the rednecks are concentrated. We have a handgun club in every city.

Edited, Fri Dec 9 12:13:22 2005 by Elderon
#8 Dec 09 2005 at 12:12 PM Rating: Good
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Lord xythex wrote:
Where do you get blueberry juice? It seems like it would be a bit too sweet.

Nope. No sugar added, organic. Walnut Acres. I bet this would make fabulous wine.
#9 Dec 09 2005 at 12:15 PM Rating: Good
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You gotta admit though, the sportsman argument is pretty weak. What's wrong with a rifle for that?

(I know, you're gonna tell me some story about a charging bear or something).


#10 Dec 09 2005 at 12:18 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
You gotta admit though, the sportsman argument is pretty weak. What's wrong with a rifle for that?

(I know, you're gonna tell me some story about a charging bear or something).


Unless you are shooting a cannon of a pistol, I do not think the bear is going to be phased by it much.

I own a .45 and while never been chased by nor shot at a bear with it, I doubt it would have the same stopping power affect on a 400-800 pound bear as it does on a 150 pound person.


Though Headshots FTW!!!1!!11
#11 Dec 09 2005 at 12:20 PM Rating: Good
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The simple fact is that the conservatives have been chomping at the bit for this since 1992. They got their chance in 2004 and f[b][/b]ucked up. You better believe they have been planning this election campaign and what to do not do for the last 15 months.

They are coming out strong.

The best thing the liberals could do is stop playing reactionary. Emphasize their strengths, perhaps draw attention to how Harper and conservatives plan to pay for tax cuts and rebates. I think if canadians realize that by taking that 700$ a year childcare plan that they would be losing municipal funding, education, mass transit and the such they would be less likely to see it as a viable alternative to Martin national child care program.

Edited, Fri Dec 9 12:22:03 2005 by bodhisattva
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#12 Dec 09 2005 at 1:10 PM Rating: Decent
fail to see how banning legitimate handguns will solve the problem. To be very clear, the laws about handguns are clear. If you have a registered firearm and it is stolen due to improper care by the owner, the owner can face up to 2 years in prison for failure to secure his/her firearm. The laws are already very tight for the law abiding citizens. How is denying the sportsman keeping guns away from the thugs? It isn't. I think this is just a dirty ploy to get the Conservative voters to vote Liberal.
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here is some sobering facts for you. 9 out of 10 people shot during a home robbery are shot with their own weapon.

85 percent of all gun related fatalities are children finding a weapon in the home, and not due to some crime.

while it is fine to chant one dimensional thinking soundbites like "only criminals will have guns" and "guns dont kill, people do" and " banning them will not stop criminals from getting them", WITHOUT ever addressing the issue with any real facts or information ..........

the simple truth is, the fewer guns in homes WILL amount to fewer deaths in homes. banning weapons will reduce deaths. yes, someone with a weapon who wants to kill you will still kill you with his illegal gun, but here is a reality check........you arte more liekly to be killed with YOUR weapon than from a criminals weapon. YOUR children are MORE liekly to be killed with YOUR weapon than a criminals.

tons of loop holes. tons of what ifs. tons of reasons to have weapons.

bottom line, statistics clearly say it is not the criminals weapon that is killing people, it is YOURS.

but, like money, a weapon gives us a sence of power. a sence of security. so dont expect people to give up guns or money. we were born stupid, and many people will die because of our stupidity. it is the human condition to self destruct even in the face of irrefutable evidence.

banning guns was never about reducing violent crime which will also be an eneviatable result of a ban, but about saving human lives. mostly the lives of innocents who are 10 times more liekly to die from a weapon in their home than one from a robber.

toss in some spinn, "only crimninals will have guns", with a litle patriotism, "this country was won with weapons", yada yada yada, and on goes the cigeratte companies making millions off of your stupidity,. and the arms dealers getting billions in bussiness both in third world countries and at home from the same inexhaustable well of stupidity.
#13 Dec 09 2005 at 1:19 PM Rating: Good
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The problem SR is as follows:

About 4-5 years ago the Liberal gov't introduced a national gun registry. It was quite unpopular with everyone that owned a gun. It also went billions upon billions of dollars over budget. This is viewed as more of the same and a lot of people are saying that it is a push from the liberals to ban gun ownership (flawed statement true but people are saying it)

Also we are more than aware that banning hand guns is just a stop gap approach that fails to deal with the symptom of the problem. The problem is caused by disparity in quality of life, problems in inclusivness and a bunch of other things.

So not only is it failing to address the actual problem it is also penalizing others for no end at all. Thus it is bad policy.

Edited, Fri Dec 9 13:22:36 2005 by bodhisattva
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#14 Dec 09 2005 at 1:26 PM Rating: Default
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Quote:
here is some sobering facts for you. 9 out of 10 people shot during a home robbery are shot with their own weapon.

85 percent of all gun related fatalities are children finding a weapon in the home, and not due to some crime.

while it is fine to chant one dimensional thinking soundbites like "only criminals will have guns" and "guns dont kill, people do" and " banning them will not stop criminals from getting them", WITHOUT ever addressing the issue with any real facts or information ..........

the simple truth is, the fewer guns in homes WILL amount to fewer deaths in homes. banning weapons will reduce deaths. yes, someone with a weapon who wants to kill you will still kill you with his illegal gun, but here is a reality check........you arte more liekly to be killed with YOUR weapon than from a criminals weapon. YOUR children are MORE liekly to be killed with YOUR weapon than a criminals.

tons of loop holes. tons of what ifs. tons of reasons to have weapons.

bottom line, statistics clearly say it is not the criminals weapon that is killing people, it is YOURS.


The complete point that you are missing though is that home shootings are a small percentage of the total shootings in our country, not going to make up a percentage but it is rather small.

The majority of shootings occur in the streets with unregistered handguns, how is removing registered handguns going to decrease the amount of shootings committed with unregistered handguns?

Do you remove kitchen knives from the world because 100 fingers are lost per year cutting carrots or do you remove bowie knives because they are the #1 weapon used in most violent attacks?
#15 Dec 09 2005 at 1:27 PM Rating: Decent
Also SR, shut the fu[/b]ck up you stupid American. Things are very different this side of the border. We do not have the "right to bear arms" as you do in the US, it has nothing to do with any of the American IRA arguments. Yes, in the US there are a truckload of dumb people who get killed by their own guns because you are allowed to keep them in your bedside table if you want. Here, if you even try to defend yourself with a firearm you will go to jail registered or not. Things are VERY different here. This is not an American discussion so fu[b]ck off.
#16 Dec 09 2005 at 1:30 PM Rating: Default
Also we are more than aware that banning hand guns is just a stop gap approach that fails to deal with the symptom of the problem. The problem is caused by disparity in quality of life, problems in inclusivness and a bunch of other things.
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banning guns is infantly cheaper than regulating them. regulating them is the stop gap measure, not banning them.

and the problem is us. people. we can put a man on the moon, but we are not mature enough as individuals to be given the power of life and death over another human being. the power a gun gives us.

as long as guns are legal, more innocent people will be killed with legitimate weapons than from criminals. and WE are the reason why.

i agree, banning weapons doesnt solve the problem of our maturity and sence of responsibility. not to mention, the lobbying dollars from the gun industry that will ensure there is no real pollitical will behind doing it other than for an election campaign soundbite.

the answer is education.

but there is no lobbiest power dumping millions of dollars on to politicians to improve that which we all know is in desperate need of improving. no money to be made for anyone. no huge industrial machine to make us better than we are.

welcome to the human condition. born in stupidity, destined to be ruled by stupidity.

imagine a world where knoledge and intellegance ment power and wealth and weapons were worthless.........

but who would pay the politicians to get us there.....
#17 Dec 09 2005 at 1:34 PM Rating: Good
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Banning the guns and all the court battles, legislative talk, grass roots movements opposing, and the cost of enforcing it will probably make it about as expensive as a registry.

SR you are stupid as sh[/b]it. I know this has been stated before but I thought it beared repeating. You know sh[b]it about the situation.

Fu[b][/b]ck off and die.
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#18 Dec 09 2005 at 1:34 PM Rating: Decent
The majority of shootings occur in the streets with unregistered handguns, how is removing registered handguns going to decrease the amount of shootings committed with unregistered handguns?
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pure spinn.

mabe the majority of crimes committed with weapons occure in the streets with unregestered weapons......

but the majority of shootings happen in homes with a legitimate weapon.

see how easy it is to spinn something with one simple word? sustitue the word "crime" with teh word "shootings", adn viola, a true statement to argue either side of the fence.

BTW, we americans INVENTED spinn. just look at our presidency. you canuks got nothing on us for lies and coruption. hell, we invaded a whole country with ours.
#19 Dec 09 2005 at 1:39 PM Rating: Good
Banning the guns and all the court battles, legislative talk, grass roots movements opposing, and the cost of enforcing it will probably make it about as expensive as a registry.
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there will be court costs with or without the banning. just look at our attempts to sue gun makers for crimes committed with their prodicts.

it is a wash.

what WILL be cheaper is the logistics of trying to store and maintain information to regulate weapons vs outright banning them, which will require no expense.

BTW, we are all stupid, you included, just to differant degrees.

nice try on the money spinn though. not well thought out however. i probably would have put some statistical facts in my argument to help support it. but then, you dont have any, do you?
#20 Dec 09 2005 at 1:39 PM Rating: Good
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Quick SR its a Pop Quiz

Who is the PM of Canada?
Who was PM of canada during gun registry?
Who was the main opponent of the Gun Registry?
What were the contributing factors behind the cost overruns?
What is the situation that sparked this latest handgun problem?
What are the difference in Canadian/US gun ownership laws/rights?

I'm hoping you can at least get the PM without having to resort to google. Simply put you are arguing a position from an incredible point of ignorance. Either educate yourself of get off this sh[b][/b]it.
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#21 Dec 09 2005 at 1:54 PM Rating: Decent
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The thing that really burns me about this whole election is this:

No one wanted it.
The voters didn't.
The parties didn't (ish).

Luckily we have more than a two party system (lolNDP).

SADLY not one single party that has a chance at being the minority leader (cause we all know it will be a minority again) has a platform or a history I want to vote for.

Stephen Harper will toadie Canada to the U.S every chance he gets.
(I really don't care that he's not the entire party, he scares the sh[i][/i]it out of me. The things that he could fuc[b][/b]k up in Canada for many of my gay friends are too important)

The liberals will see this as another pass to keep doing what they are doing.

The NPD can't be trusted with the budget.

And most sadly the one party I would vote for based on their education/healthcare/environmental platform is being ignored (The Green).

Martin basically polarized the voters even more by putting this assinine proposal together. We don't NEED to get rid of handguns, we NEED to have more police to stop the gang violence in T.O. We NEED to put more money into social projects so that people that feel trapped in the Low income/"Ghetto" don't turn to gangs or drugs.

It makes me so angry that the lesser of 3 evils turns out to be the one wearing a helmet while he takes the short bus to parliment.
#22 Dec 09 2005 at 1:59 PM Rating: Decent
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trickybeck wrote:

You gotta admit though, the sportsman argument is pretty weak. What's wrong with a rifle for that?

(I know, you're gonna tell me some story about a charging bear or something).




I actually own several guns. Granted some of my family traditions are rather "Hickish", as we like to hunt, but we do shoot a couple hand guns also for ***** and giggles. I know a lot of frieds who also shoot for just for the sporting aspect of the activity. None of these individuals are social deviants either.


I won't tell you about a bear ... but wild boar are pretty scary also.
#23 Dec 09 2005 at 2:09 PM Rating: Good
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Liberal minority FTW.

I hate Jack Layton. Simply put the man is stupid. My sisters boyfriend is a dyed in the wool, card carrying NDP so when the NDP leadership race heated up I paid attention. I have just never like Layton. If Bill Blaike had won the leadership, things would be different but Layton is not a leader. Plus his promise to pull Canadian troops out of Afghanistan is wrong on so many levels and just pandering to the anti war crowd.

The Conservatives want to bring down Gay Marriage, they want to participate in North American Missle Defense, they will pretty much do whatever the US asks. All the while cutting corporate tax, wealthy tax and slashing any and all social spending they can get their hands on.

Liberals. They keep the books balanced, maintain the status quo, are pretty good on the environment, standing up to Bush and slowly pushing a left wing agenda that easily meshes with what the majority of canadians want. I would love to see them slapped down however I realize to do so would only be shooting myself in the foot.

So liberal minority especially now that they are under the microscope is preferable to either of the alternatives.

Edited, Fri Dec 9 14:11:31 2005 by bodhisattva
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#24 Dec 09 2005 at 2:18 PM Rating: Good
bodhisattva wrote:
Liberal minority FTW.

I hate Jack Layton. Simply put the man is stupid. My sisters boyfriend is a dyed in the wool, card carrying NDP so when the NDP leadership race heated up I paid attention. I have just never like Layton. If Bill Blaike had won the leadership, things would be different but Layton is not a leader. Plus his promise to pull Canadian troops out of Afghanistan is wrong on so many levels and just pandering to the anti war crowd.

The Conservatives want to bring down Gay Marriage, they want to participate in North American Missle Defense, they will pretty much do whatever the US asks. All the while cutting corporate tax, wealthy tax and slashing any and all social spending they can get their hands on.

Liberals. They keep the books balanced, maintain the status quo, are pretty good on the environment, standing up to Bush and slowly pushing a left wing agenda that easily meshes with what the majority of canadians want. I would love to see them slapped down however I realize to do so would only be shooting myself in the foot.

So liberal minority especially now that they are under the microscope is preferable to either of the alternatives.


My big problem with getting the Libs in is that no matter what, when the gun issue goes to the house, it will pass because the PC's have been trying to get this done. The only chance we have to stop it is lobbiests and NDP backing for the little guy...
#25 Dec 09 2005 at 2:22 PM Rating: Decent
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The really sad part about the whole thing is that the money in the "Adscam" that was taken amounts to a Large Tim's for every Canadian. That's really not that much (It's not a justification, because it is still shoddy theft.)

Despite the fact that I'll vote liberal just to keep the U.S.America (Conservatives) out of this part of North America.

Add to the conundrum that in Nova Scotia we have one of the most honest and integrity filled politicians (John Ham, I've met him a few times at university functions) He's a Tory.

The East coast Old School PC party is still alive and well in Nova Scotia. Too bad they merged.
#26 Dec 09 2005 at 2:25 PM Rating: Good
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Part of me is like "who needs hand guns? As long as I have a rifle for moose hunting the world is good".

I do realize what a polarizing f[b][/b]uck up of a move this was though. I realize that it doesnt address the problem, that it will be largely ineffective in stopping gun violence, that it punishes a large group of canadians that legally own hand guns and use them for recreational purposes that in no way harms people.

It is very unlike the liberals to make such a mistake.
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