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Suspension for Spanish?Follow

#1 Dec 09 2005 at 11:33 AM Rating: Good
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KANSAS CITY, Kan. - Most of the time, 16-year-old Zach Rubio converses in clear, unaccented American teen-speak, a form of English in which the three most common words are "like," "whatever" and "totally." But Zach is also fluent in his dad's native language, Spanish -- and that's what got him suspended from school.

"It was, like, totally not in the classroom," the high school junior said, recalling the infraction. "We were in the, like, hall or whatever, on restroom break. This kid I know, he's like, 'Me prestas un dolar?' ['Will you lend me a dollar?'] Well, he asked in Spanish; it just seemed natural to answer that way. So I'm like, 'No problema.' "


But that conversation turned out to be a big problem for the staff at the Endeavor Alternative School, a small public high school in an ethnically mixed blue-collar neighborhood. A teacher who overheard the two boys sent Zach to the office, where Principal Jennifer Watts ordered him to call his father and leave the school.


Full story here.

This seems really harsh for a simple hallway conversation. I could understand if the two kids were speaking spanish in class to avoid their teacher understanding what they were talking about, especially if they had deviant intentions.

At least the school did the right thing by resciding his punishment. You can get a lawsuit is otw!
#2 Dec 09 2005 at 11:50 AM Rating: Decent
i think someone is going to be sued over that.

#3 Dec 09 2005 at 11:52 AM Rating: Good
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It's a difficult subject among some latinos. It's by-and-large considered good manners to speak Spanish when it's spoken to you, or when you know another person speaks it as well. it's a courtesy you extend to make someone feel comfortable with you, especially if they are older. It seems logical, then, that he would answer this way when spoken to, but I'm not surprised that someone had an issue with it.

If he was in the hallway having a social conversation, then I don't see the issue.
#4 Dec 09 2005 at 11:57 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Endeavor Alternative School, a small public high school


This is an interesting note as well. Most alternative schools I know of are usually for kids that were removed from the normal school for behavorial issues. The rule might stem from previous issues.

The punishment for what was said is a bit severe, but the rule might be justified. I guess I would have to know more about the school
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#5 Dec 09 2005 at 11:59 AM Rating: Excellent
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So I'm like, 'No problema.'

So not only was he disciplined for speaking in Spanish, he was disciplined for using a phrase uttered by eleventy-bagillion gringos daily. Talk about a kick in the teeth.

I wonder if they taser kids who say Que sera, sera.
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#6 Dec 09 2005 at 12:02 PM Rating: Decent
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Article wrote:
But in a written "discipline referral" explaining her decision to suspend Zach for 1 1/2 days, she noted: "This is not the first time we have [asked] Zach and others to not speak Spanish at school."



Breakin' the law, Breakin' the law ...


#7 Dec 09 2005 at 12:03 PM Rating: Good
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Interesting.
Quote:
Rubio, a U.S. citizen, credits U.S. immigration law for his decision to fight his son's suspension.
"You can't just walk in and become a citizen," he said. "They make you take this government test. I studied for that test, and I learned that in America, they can't punish you unless you violate a written policy."

Rubio said he remembered that lesson on Nov. 28, when he received a call from Endeavor Alternative saying his son had been suspended.

"So I went to the principal and said, 'My son, he's not suspended for fighting, right? He's not suspended for disrespecting anyone. He's suspended for speaking Spanish in the hall?' So I asked her to show me the written policy about that. But they didn't have" one.

Rubio then called the superintendent of the Turner Unified School District, which operates the school. The district immediately rescinded Zach's suspension, local media reported. The superintendent did not respond to several requests to comment for this article.

Since then, the issue of speaking Spanish in the hall has not been raised at the school, Zach said. "I know it would be, like, disruptive if I answered in Spanish in the classroom. I totally don't do that. But outside of class now, the teachers are like, 'Whatever.' "

For Zach's father, and for the Hispanic organizations that have expressed concern, the suspension is not a closed case. "Obviously they've violated his civil rights," said Chuck Chionuma, a lawyer in Kansas City, Mo., who is representing the Rubio family. "We're studying what form of legal redress will correct the situation."

Said Rubio: "I'm mainly doing this for other Mexican families, where the legal status is kind of shaky and they are afraid to speak up. Punished for speaking Spanish? Somebody has to stand up and say: This is wrong."


xythex wrote:
The punishment for what was said is a bit severe, but the rule might be justified. I guess I would have to know more about the school

Seems there was no rule. Still, I'm curious. What rule do you feel would be justified?
#8 Dec 09 2005 at 12:04 PM Rating: Decent
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I don't see the problem with speaking a foreign language in school. I go to a school where I sometimes hear conversations in Punjabi. It's their language their choice.

Suspended for speaking Spanish? Pathetic.
#9 Dec 09 2005 at 12:06 PM Rating: Good
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I don't see the issue. In California, so many different languages are spoken that in some public buildings, you'll see signs with more than 10 written languages.

The school is public, not private, so I really see this as a case of discrimination and possibly against free speech. The principal says:

Quote:
This is not the first time we have [asked] Zach and others to not speak Spanish at school.


and later admits to the student's dad that the school doesn't have a written policy about speaking different languages. Kudos to the dad for looking into the situation and handling well. Can't say the same for the principal though.


#10 Dec 09 2005 at 12:09 PM Rating: Good
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I'm kind of proud of the father, as well. I think most folks assume that Spanish is spoken only by children who have no command of English, but the bilingual student is becoming more the rule than the exception, and that's a wonderful thing. His father wasn't some illegal who just hopped over the fence. He was a citizen of over 20 years who had gotten his citizenship legally, and he knows his rights as a citizen and is advocating for his community. Good for him.
#11 Dec 09 2005 at 12:12 PM Rating: Good
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When I was in 4th grade, there were two Polish kids (although the run-of-the mill American born kind) who spoke to each other in Polish now and then. Our teacher prohibited them from doing it because she thought they were making fun of other kids and whatnot.

However, that was 4th grade, so there were no passing periods or hallway time in which to converse. I'm sure they were given free reign at recess.


My high school was about 30% Latino, I don't think the thought of banning Spanish would have even entered anyone's mind.

#12 Dec 09 2005 at 12:14 PM Rating: Good
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I missed the part where they said there was no written rule. Then I guess it really is inexcusable.

Quote:
What rule do you feel would be justified?


If requiring that all conversations are in XX language reduced issues at the school I could see why the administration would consider it. Schools have much worse rules than this, like no red hats, or you can't flash symbols that may or may not be gang signs, etc, etc, and if this is a last chance school they would probably have more discipline problems than most. Their goal is to provide as safe an environment as possible to foster learning the curriculum.
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#13 Dec 09 2005 at 12:17 PM Rating: Good
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Lord xythex wrote:
If requiring that all conversations are in XX language reduced issues at the school I could see why the administration would consider it.

Like what issues? Lending money?
#14 Dec 09 2005 at 12:20 PM Rating: Good
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The Glorious Atomicflea wrote:
Like what issues? Lending money?

Probably nicked it from a white lady, anyway.


#15 Dec 09 2005 at 12:23 PM Rating: Good
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trickybeck wrote:
The Glorious Atomicflea wrote:
Like what issues? Lending money?

Probably nicked it from a white lady, anyway.

And spoke English while he did it!
#16 Dec 09 2005 at 12:26 PM Rating: Good
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Whatever issues are prevented by passing rules like you can't wear hello kitty tshirts, snap bracelets, two ponytails on one side, high tops with green laces, walk around with your thumbs in the air, cant chew mint flavored gum, and the bazzillion other rules that someone must feel makes schools a better learning environment because they are pretty commonly implemented.

I can't say whether or not those rules do anything to make the school a better place but I do know that my tax dollars pay people allot of money to find out so that I don't have to.

I guess this is just one of those things that if my kid brought home an addendum to the rulebook for I probably wouldn't give it a whole lot of thought.
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#17 Dec 09 2005 at 12:33 PM Rating: Good
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Yeah, but seemingly arbitrary rules like "no hello kitty" and "no chewing gum" apply equally to everyone.

No speaking Spanish (or any other foreign language) specifically and unfairly targets certain groups, even if not intentionally. And discriminatory practices, even if unintentional, are generally prohibited where applicable by law.

There needs to be a valid reason why speaking Spanish is troublesome in order to justify it.


#18 Dec 09 2005 at 12:36 PM Rating: Decent
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Personally I think most of those rules you just listed seem as[/b]sinine Xythex. And what Tricky said.

However, the larger issue with this suspension, imo, was touched on in the article. That is that bilingualism should be seen as an asset.

Instead, 9 times out of 10, people are threatened by it. Particularly when the second language is Spanish.

Schools are places for learning and mind expansion (in an ideal world...I realize that they're mostly places to go pick up chics at this point.)

If the schools are actively discouraging bi-lingualism as a gut reaction to some non-specific fear of latinos, which appears to be the case in this example at least, then I think people should take issue with it and not just excuse it as a way to "minimize behavioral problems."

Of course, Kansas seems to have a relatively skewed version of education anyway, so I suppose I shouldn't be surprised.

Edited, Fri Dec 9 12:38:34 2005 by sheebasaurusrex
#19 Dec 09 2005 at 12:42 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Personally I think most of those rules you just listed seem assinine Xythex


Me too, but if administrators can point to a chart at the schoolboard meeting and say:

 
====================================== 
Problems with hello kitty tshirts 
 
================== 
Problems without 


I would be hard pressed to argue based on the results. School board members are elected officials. Now the argument is moot when it comes to this article as there was no rule in place.
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#20 Dec 09 2005 at 12:47 PM Rating: Decent
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Lord xythex wrote:
School board members are elected officials.


*shakes head at poor naive xythex*

Being an elected official doesn't make you infallible, or even right. It just makes you powerful.

Luckily, in this case, the school board immediately rescinded the suspension given that it was baseless...but please never use that argument again.

edited for spellingness

Edited, Fri Dec 9 12:50:23 2005 by sheebasaurusrex
#21 Dec 09 2005 at 12:49 PM Rating: Good
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Being an elected official doesn't make you infallible, or even right.


Very much true, but ideally it does mean that you represent the wishes of the majority of voters.
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#22 Dec 09 2005 at 12:54 PM Rating: Decent
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Lord xythex wrote:
Quote:
Being an elected official doesn't make you infallible, or even right.


Very much true, but ideally it does mean that you represent the wishes of the majority of voters.


And realistically it means that the majority of the voters think you'll represent their wishes.

I realize I'm just arguing symantics now, but I don't want to work.
#23 Dec 09 2005 at 1:49 PM Rating: Good
A rule that stated "Students are not allowed to speak any language other than english at any time on school property" would not be justified, no matter who's tax dollars we are talking about here. Bringing up tax dollars is a pinko-commie thing to do, you pinko-commie.

I can understand a rule that states "Students must only use English in non-foreign language classes, when speaking to one another in class."

Comparing that to smoking between classes (which I'm sure someone was going to do) is not a valid comparison. Smoking is not legal for school age kids to do, speaking another language is.
#24 Dec 09 2005 at 2:00 PM Rating: Good
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Bringing up tax dollars is a pinko-commie thing to do, you pinko-commie.


Now you went and hurt my feelings.

Jerk.
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#25 Dec 09 2005 at 2:01 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
symantics


Semantics. Symantec is a company.

When I was in high school, those of us taking foreign-language classes were encouraged to speak those languages as much as we could, for practice. This "rule", which never got itself codified into official language in the first place, is obviously the effect of teachers' and administrators' discomfort with and possible distrust of students from a latin (or non-Anglo, anyway) background.

I'm sure it wasn't meant to be racist, but it is. And I'd have no problem at all with requiring that English be spoken in the classroom and at school functions; but down time is down time, and students should be allowed to speak whatever language they choose. If you're not comfortable with being unable to understand what they're saying, ask them to translate if you think it's relevant. Or better yet learn the language yourself.
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#26 Dec 09 2005 at 2:04 PM Rating: Good
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Now you went and hurt my feelings.

Jerk.


the truth hurts sometimes. *hugglez*
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