Christianity vs. Catholicism: which is religion?Follow

You've blended two seperate statements I made to Tarv.

Think of it this way to get sort of an idea. You live your life until your 60, then a brick falls and hits you in the head. You wake up remembering nothing. Within a weeks time you regain your memories chronologically. Your conciousness is experiencing this life for the first time, however, it is still you that made the decisions and lived the life. You are still the same person but you are experiencing your life much quicker than it happened.

Now reverse that. From your point of view your life is panning out in a timely fashion. You pick up a cup, you open the fridge, you fill the cup with a beverage, you drink some of the beverage, you set it on the edge of the table, the cup falls, some spills out, you wash the cup. All in the space of 10 minutes. Now to God all of this happened at exactly the same time. Still all your decisions, the cup fell because you chose to set it on the edge of the table, still looks like 10 minutes to you but that concept of time does not apply to God. He doesn't have to wait for you to make those decisions.

WHooosh


let me dumb it down for you.

If our existance from begining to end were merely a straight line.. (still with me?) whether you think of it as your life or as in the existance of your immortal soul... IF it were a "straight line" then that would intonate TOTAL PREDESTINATION; no options, no choices... straight line..

Now concider if at any "time" between the 2 points the line does not have to go straight but has the "options" or FREE WILL to traverse any of the many points that lie between Point A and point B.

All of these "other points" in between are the realms of possibility from within which we choose in which manner we are to procede.


So indeed waht you said, about the straight line... is indeed irrelevant.. however .. that thing that I said? about the many points between? Totally relevant.

<3 the arrogance. Though it can be frustrating when it's not funny.

No I got it, but it really doesn't apply. You're distorting the situation for your arguement.

Jaja. You know I do deal with your type on a daily basis.^^ Unfortunately I've never gotten good at bringing people down to size, I fail there.



Do you not see how causation, omnipotence, and ominicience lead to complete control. How this takes away free will.

If the claims made by the zoroastrian religions (I use them as an example because of prominence) are correct then god put every act into motion cia creation, he also realises the outcome of every action and has the power to change this however he chooses. You can't even try to claim that god would lack responsibility because of omission because he did instigate the beginning processes that lead to the outcome.

Get it?

I like cheze sandwiches who else likes cheze sandwiches?

Let me try another analogy. This time we will use space instead of time because it is easier to visualize. You are a gnat in a ringbox with a little maze in it. Let's pretend the maze is too narrow for you to turn around. You work your way through the maze, Turning left and right. Always at a different point in the maze. You are always moving forward to an area you haven't been too yet. The bounderies of the maze wall always keep you contained within the maze yet you are free to choose the path you take through the maze. You know nothing outside of the maze so it is your entire reality.

Now I come along and pick up the ringbox. My hand now encompasses every point in the maze. I am at every point you could possibly exist at. The mazes bounderies don't apply to me. I am able to physically occupy all points within the maze. Just because I am at every point does not change the gnats accomplishments. He still experienced different points at different times. He still has free will to move whereever he wants to in the maze within his bounderies it's just that I am at every point he could possibly occupy.

Now think of time as a 4th dimension. God occupies every point in time simulataniously, much like the hand holding the maze. Our boundery of time does not apply to him because he created it. He is greater than it.

I had to quote it just because it's a fantastic line.

I've gotta say this:

The one problem with you people discussing god is that you're trying to wrap your puny minds around something that you have no concept of. There is NO POSSIBLE WAY that you could ever comprehend the idea of an omnipresent/omnipotent being.

Want an example?

Think of how many stars are in the sky. If you have a number that is less than 3 trillion, multiply by 12. That's a really rough (probably short changed it by a little) idea of how many stars are in our galaxy. Now, Take the same number and multiply by about 4 billion (huge shortchange there). That's the number of galaxies in our universe.

Now here is where conceptualization comes in.

How many times bigger is the universe than the earth.


If you can't do that (with easilly calculated numbers) then you have 0 chance of ever comprehending exactly what "God" can/can't/is/isn't.

It's just not possible.



Because I < the ....

Edited, Thu Dec 8 08:58:43 2005 by Diveos

So then you haven't ruled out the idea that there is a loving God?

No more then I've ruled out a spitefull sadistic god who tortures people.

Or that god is a crippled black lesbian firefighters vaginal fluids.

Or that god is a chainsaw weilding grizzly bear named Brutus.

See where I'm going with this?

It's impossible to know if a god exists. It is possible to say you having any sort of defined concept of one is delusisonal bullsh[b][/b]it.

So then should we just stop trying to understand? Take everything at face value? Not question our existance or origins? Are you suggesting that we should just sit down, stare at a wall and chant because we cannot fully understand reality?


Learn to deal with saying "gee I don't know"

Gee, I don't know what happens when I die.

Gee, I don't know how the universe came into being.

Gee, I don't know why people die arbitrarily regardeless of their personal morrality.

Gee, I don't know why children die of SARS.

Gee, I don't know why I think that an infintessmilly small utterly insignifgant species on one of quadrillions of planets would ever think they were the most important thing in the univers other than moronic hubris.

Thats certainly not a problem but I cannot leave it like that

Gee, I don't know what happens when I die, but I bet there is evidence around me that might give me some clues.

Gee, I don't know how the universe came into being, but there are some pretty good parables in this several thousand year old book that might have a thread of truth I can explore.

Gee, I don't know why people die arbitrarily regardeless of their personal morrality, but there must be some sort of explanation that I can look for.

Gee, I don't know why I think that an infintessmilly small utterly insignifgant species on one of quadrillions of planets would ever think they were the most important thing in the univers other than moronic hubris, but it sure seems to me that there must be a reason for us to exist.

Well, I will die not understanding many many many things. But I will die trying to understand everything I can. I'm not going to just throw my hands up like these "strong minded" people you speak of and say well there's no way I can understand this so there is no sense in even trying. I fail to see how that makes me a moron.