Jophiel, forever getting the thread back on topic! The price of the item is irrelevant.
There is no correct answer to the subject - however the following is true: good friends will always find a way of resolving such matters without such a trifling matter damaging the friendship.
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For the record I said that he should pay her for the purse. My point is that the biggest difference between most $50 and $500 purses is simply the pricetag. It is highly unlikely that most people could tell the difference between the two sitting side by side. There is very little noticable quality difference. Hence, why people can get away with pawning off forgeries as authentic.
The coat argument is different, Most people can easily tell the difference between a $50 and $500 coat. It will hold up better under stress, it will block wind better, it will have a different weight. You simply cannot make a high quality $50 leather jacket. You need to skimp somewhere or you will lose money. The cost to produce it exceeds $50
Both the $50 and $500 purses are going to have the same effectiveness carrying tampons and lipstick. They are made out of the same material, they both will far exceed the weight limits imposed on them under every day use. Both will last much longer than they will be in style, and as we've seen visually there is very little difference. Both most likely cost under $5 to make in korea, and probably in the same factory. The extra $450 value is completely intangable
The coat argument is different, Most people can easily tell the difference between a $50 and $500 coat. It will hold up better under stress, it will block wind better, it will have a different weight. You simply cannot make a high quality $50 leather jacket. You need to skimp somewhere or you will lose money. The cost to produce it exceeds $50
Both the $50 and $500 purses are going to have the same effectiveness carrying tampons and lipstick. They are made out of the same material, they both will far exceed the weight limits imposed on them under every day use. Both will last much longer than they will be in style, and as we've seen visually there is very little difference. Both most likely cost under $5 to make in korea, and probably in the same factory. The extra $450 value is completely intangable
Nicroll 65 Assassin
Teltorid 52 Druid
Aude Sapere
Oh hell camp me all you want f**kers. I own this site and thus I own you. - Allakhazam
Teltorid 52 Druid
Aude Sapere
Oh hell camp me all you want f**kers. I own this site and thus I own you. - Allakhazam
I don't think that is true. Maybe for some purses, but like any other item you get what you pay for. The leather is higher quality, the stitching is of higher quality, the whole bit. The knock off bags I have purchased -look- the same, but if you hold the real thing in your hand you can tell. Little things, like softer leather.
Same with any high price item. If I buy a no-name brand cashmere sweater at a department store, or I buy one at J Crew, or I buy one at Brooks Brothers, they are all 100% cashmere, but have each have a different feel to them. You can tell one is better quality than the other.
Lord xythex wrote:
The coat argument is different, Most people can easily tell the difference between a $50 and $500 coat.
I understand that you agree with me in the liability issue but a lot of people seem to think that daring to take a $120 purse outside is an act of insanity and absolves the host from any responsibility.
Hell, even in the case of a pen, I might question why someone would take a $25,000 pen out on the town (and hope they had the sense to insure it) but if someone had a $100 pen that was damaged in my home by my son or pet, I'd try to compensate the owner without saying he wasn't allowed to own and use fancy hundred dollar pens.
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
now you have all witnessed the real xythex that I have to deal with everyday.
may bob have pity on your souls.
may bob have pity on your souls.
Dear Frakkor
Your purse looks like shi[/b]t.
Your friend,
xythex
Your purse looks like shi[/b]t.
Your friend,
xythex
Nicroll 65 Assassin
Teltorid 52 Druid
Aude Sapere
Oh hell camp me all you want f**kers. I own this site and thus I own you. - Allakhazam
Teltorid 52 Druid
Aude Sapere
Oh hell camp me all you want f**kers. I own this site and thus I own you. - Allakhazam
yes, but it's a $200 piece of sh[b][/b]it.
Edited, Tue Nov 29 10:56:12 2005 by Frakkor
Jophiel wrote:
Hell, even in the case of a pen, I might question why someone would take a $25,000 pen out on the town (and hope they had the sense to insure it) but if someone had a $100 pen that was damaged in my home by my son or pet, I'd try to compensate the owner without saying he wasn't allowed to own and use fancy hundred dollar pens.
Ok. But what if it was a $25,000 pen? Should you be responsible for his choice to carry around an expensive pen?
I was kinda going the same direction as Pat. Among polite society there's a level of face saving that goes along with situations like this, but usually a group of friends knows who can afford to replace something and who can't, and they work these things out. Certainly, if I'm making 6 figures, and a friend of mine making minimum wage, I'm going to pay to replace something that breaks when we're both present whether it's mine or his, and whether it's my fault or his fault. I'm certainly not going to require that he replace an item that I can afford, but he cannot afford to replace. It was my choice to carry around an item costing that much, so I'm not going to hold him responsible.
That's how it should be handled. Clearly, replacing the item is going to represent a financial burden to one party, but not the other, then the other should step in and pay for it. It's just what you do in situations like that. If both can afford to replace the item trivially, then they can argue about who gets to pay for it if they want, or come to whether solution they want. If neither can afford to replace the item, then it's just a loss, right? Yeah. Take your friend to court if you want, but I'm betting the friendship should be worth more then whatever item was lost.
Legally of course, the owner of the dog is responsible for the damage. Clear cut case. But among friends, do you really make decisions that way?
King Nobby wrote:
More words please
gbaji wrote:
Ok. But what if it was a $25,000 pen? Should you be responsible for his choice to carry around an expensive pen?
I was staying within the cost parameters the actual situation calls for. Twenty-five grand pens are much further outside the norm than $120 purses. Extraordinary circumstances may call for extraordinary measures but I'll fret about them when they occur.
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
Quote:
Twenty-five grand pens are much further outside the norm than $120 purses.
Not for GregoryTheWatcher, his pen is huge
Nicroll 65 Assassin
Teltorid 52 Druid
Aude Sapere
Oh hell camp me all you want f**kers. I own this site and thus I own you. - Allakhazam
Teltorid 52 Druid
Aude Sapere
Oh hell camp me all you want f**kers. I own this site and thus I own you. - Allakhazam
Lord xythex wrote:
For the record I said that he should pay her for the purse. My point is that the biggest difference between most $50 and $500 purses is simply the pricetag. It is highly unlikely that most people could tell the difference between the two sitting side by side. There is very little noticable quality difference. Hence, why people can get away with pawning off forgeries as authentic.
The coat argument is different, Most people can easily tell the difference between a $50 and $500 coat. It will hold up better under stress, it will block wind better, it will have a different weight. You simply cannot make a high quality $50 leather jacket. You need to skimp somewhere or you will lose money. The cost to produce it exceeds $50
Both the $50 and $500 purses are going to have the same effectiveness carrying tampons and lipstick. They are made out of the same material, they both will far exceed the weight limits imposed on them under every day use. Both will last much longer than they will be in style, and as we've seen visually there is very little difference. Both most likely cost under $5 to make in korea, and probably in the same factory. The extra $450 value is completely intangable
The coat argument is different, Most people can easily tell the difference between a $50 and $500 coat. It will hold up better under stress, it will block wind better, it will have a different weight. You simply cannot make a high quality $50 leather jacket. You need to skimp somewhere or you will lose money. The cost to produce it exceeds $50
Both the $50 and $500 purses are going to have the same effectiveness carrying tampons and lipstick. They are made out of the same material, they both will far exceed the weight limits imposed on them under every day use. Both will last much longer than they will be in style, and as we've seen visually there is very little difference. Both most likely cost under $5 to make in korea, and probably in the same factory. The extra $450 value is completely intangable
No.
Jophiel wrote:
I was staying within the cost parameters the actual situation calls for. Twenty-five grand pens are much further outside the norm than $120 purses. Extraordinary circumstances may call for extraordinary measures but I'll fret about them when they occur.
Right. But it's your interpretation of the parameters that defines your answer though. It's not who's at fault so much as how valuable the item is. That's what I've been getting at.
Clearly, if replacing a $200 purse is not a financial hardship for either of the parties involved, then the issue is moot. They're friends and will figure something out. I can only assume from the information given that $200 *is* a large amount for the people involved, or there just wouldn't be an argument in the first place.
I don't think 200 bucks is a big deal. But I certainly know people for whom it is. What I'm saying is that I'd pay the 200 bucks whether it was my purse/pen/whatever or theirs and whether it was my fault or theirs, simply because I'm their friend, and I know that I can trivially afford to spend 200 bucks and they can't. If they insist that it's their fault, I'll let them make it up to me in some other way. They can help me the next time I'm doing some kind of labor or something. Dunno. There's always ways. I've just never sweated values like that, and I'd assume that most friends wont either. It's really only an issue if the money involved is significant.
And that leads me right back to my first point. If $200 bucks is such a financial hardship for every single one of the four people involved that they'd even get into an argument over who should pay for the purse, then you really have to wonder what diane was doing walking around with it in the first place. In this case, the purse becomes like the 25k pen. If it's something you can't afford to lose or replace, then you are accepting the chance that you'll lose it and not get it back everytime you take it outside. If that's ok with you then that's *your* choice. Just as it was Diane's choice to carry around a purse of such value that she couldn't easily replace it (again assumed in this case).
King Nobby wrote:
More words please
I'd say Flea likes nice purses.
I do too and only guilt keeps me from spending the money on one.
I do too and only guilt keeps me from spending the money on one.
gbaji wrote:
And that leads me right back to my first point. If $200 bucks is such a financial hardship for every single one of the four people involved that they'd even get into an argument over who should pay for the purse, then you really have to wonder what diane was doing walking around with it in the first place.
It is perfectly logical even to assume that Diane was happy to have found something she ordinarily wouldn't buy (a $200 purse) at a price where she could justify it ($120). That doesn't mean she should be unwilling to use it -- why else would she buy it? Purses don't appreciate in value unless there's some extraordinary circumstance involved. Likewise, it doesn't make her unreasonable to expect that her purse will only undergo normal wear from day to day and not be eaten by someone's dog. Or expect the host to take care of things when the dog does eat it.
The whole pen thing is irrelevant. The purse isn't magically transformed into a limited edition object d'art just because Diane can't buy another on sale. It's still a normal, mass produced purse that cost a fairly normal amount for a purse and was treated like millions of purses are treated daily until it was eaten. There's nothing questionable about it and it's hardly comparable to wondering why one would take what is essentially an investment and unique art item and carry it around like a Bic disposible.
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
Yanari the Puissant wrote:
I'd say Flea likes nice purses.
You'd be right. I like nice everything. It's not like I even own an expensive purse. I wouldn't put more than $50 into one, but that has more to do with the state of my finances right now than anything else. If I got one as a gift or on sale, you'd better believe I'd tote it around everywhere proudly unless I got a phonecall warning me about chew-happy pups or I knew I was going into a bad part of town. That's where the Target cheap purse comes in, which is pretty much an open canvas satchel for tossing (and losing) stuff.
However, I can still tell the difference between an expensively made, proper handbag and a Target $50 purse. It's in the quality of the stitching, the leather, the lining, the hardware, the durability, and the care put into the construction, not to mention the artistic touches that set it apart. It's the difference between a suit from Sears and one from Hugo Boss. (For Weebs, it's the difference between a gas station lighter and the bling-bling Zippo.)
I'm not knocking Tar-ghey, which I love, but if you can't tell the difference between two items so disparate in price, then you're not a detail-oriented person, be you woman or man.
Edited, Tue Nov 29 23:42:34 2005 by Atomicflea
Back when I used to smoke, something I always wanted but never bought for myself was a nice "real" lighter. I got by for a good fifteen years on disposables. And paper matches. And the stove burner. And once off the pilot on the furnace.
Oh well.
Oh well.
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
Ok .... I'm an American citizen, yet I have lived very little in the US, and I consider myself to come from a different culture. My assessment seems different from you guys.
Over here, the Middle East that is, a friend NEVER asks for a compensation, for something you broke/damaged. However, it's expected for you to compensate out of manners. I was staying at a friend's house last week, he was away in Saudi Arabia, and while just sitting there watching TV, his satellite reciever just fried for no apparent reason. When he came back, and I took it to fix it, he stopped me at the door and vehemently refused, saying it was just an accident.
On another occasion, same friend, I was driving his car, him by my side, some drunk ******* suddenly swerves and crashes us from the side. For a moment there I forgot about insurance, and earnestly offered to fix it.
In other words, when a situation like this happens, I believe that both parties are politely expected to try and claim responsibility for the accident lol.
So if it was Mohammed and Aisha, visiting Omar and Laila, and Aisha's purse got chewed by the dog, none would say anything about it, but the next day Omar and Laila would go pick a better purse for Aisha, and Aisha would shyly (and fiercely) refuse the gift and say that it's just an accident ...etc. Then depending on how much she liked her destroyed purse, and how expensive it was, she'll either meekly accept, or not.
Is it possible for one party to take it legally/literally and claim the cash? Sure .... you'll have to pay up, it's "correct", but it's not socially polite (in my opinion).
If somehow my pen gets damaged slightly, I'd fix it, if heavily, I'd expect the "friend" to fix it. And if it was totally destroyed, I'd expect the friend to compensate me with something equally unique at the nearest occasion, if he can afford it. (but I wouldn't ask for it, and I wouldn't be too bummed of he didn't)
And Xythex :) whats bothering you about the pen mate? :) I have a thing for pens, and I'm proud of acquiring a unique collectible. Can't you be happy for me? ;)
Over here, the Middle East that is, a friend NEVER asks for a compensation, for something you broke/damaged. However, it's expected for you to compensate out of manners. I was staying at a friend's house last week, he was away in Saudi Arabia, and while just sitting there watching TV, his satellite reciever just fried for no apparent reason. When he came back, and I took it to fix it, he stopped me at the door and vehemently refused, saying it was just an accident.
On another occasion, same friend, I was driving his car, him by my side, some drunk ******* suddenly swerves and crashes us from the side. For a moment there I forgot about insurance, and earnestly offered to fix it.
In other words, when a situation like this happens, I believe that both parties are politely expected to try and claim responsibility for the accident lol.
So if it was Mohammed and Aisha, visiting Omar and Laila, and Aisha's purse got chewed by the dog, none would say anything about it, but the next day Omar and Laila would go pick a better purse for Aisha, and Aisha would shyly (and fiercely) refuse the gift and say that it's just an accident ...etc. Then depending on how much she liked her destroyed purse, and how expensive it was, she'll either meekly accept, or not.
Is it possible for one party to take it legally/literally and claim the cash? Sure .... you'll have to pay up, it's "correct", but it's not socially polite (in my opinion).
If somehow my pen gets damaged slightly, I'd fix it, if heavily, I'd expect the "friend" to fix it. And if it was totally destroyed, I'd expect the friend to compensate me with something equally unique at the nearest occasion, if he can afford it. (but I wouldn't ask for it, and I wouldn't be too bummed of he didn't)
And Xythex :) whats bothering you about the pen mate? :) I have a thing for pens, and I'm proud of acquiring a unique collectible. Can't you be happy for me? ;)
I spent some years in Saudi, and I agree. It's a cultural thing. In Peru, both parties would refuse blame of any sort and the host would not offer payment.
31 posts
explosions are nice (when the ******* are not going look like they haven't blown any rocks at morning about seven anything; ***********
dunt care, kill'em!!!!!one!!!!!
dunt care, kill'em!!!!!one!!!!!
Quote:
And Xythex :) whats bothering you about the pen mate? :) I have a thing for pens, and I'm proud of acquiring a unique collectible. Can't you be happy for me? ;)
I've got no problem with your fetish for the pen is that the way I'm coming across?
Is no one going to take my purse quiz?
Nicroll 65 Assassin
Teltorid 52 Druid
Aude Sapere
Oh hell camp me all you want f**kers. I own this site and thus I own you. - Allakhazam
Teltorid 52 Druid
Aude Sapere
Oh hell camp me all you want f**kers. I own this site and thus I own you. - Allakhazam
Quote:
Is no one going to take my purse quiz?
2 people have!
I disagree on it being a cultural thing, its more of a local property law thing. Each state or country has laws specifically detailing who is responsible when this type of thing happens. The culture may have influenced the laws, but the issues have come up in the legal system often enough that the laws and court decisions have been written to determine the responsible parties. People often are confused about what the laws regarding personal property are. The OP sounds like he is presenting a Law School Hypothetical for discussion.
Here's a nice handbag and not too expensive.
Here's a nice handbag and not too expensive.
4 posts
Make the dog into a purse and give it to Diane. Use the $120 you were going to pay and purchase another fluffy puppy and a can of quick-paint that matches the color of the new purse. Rinse and repeat as needed, or however many times Diane comes over.
Ahh purses are just silly, who needs em? I haven't carried a purse in 5-6 years at least unless it was a dress up affair. I think $10 is too much for a purse, none of them look very good and they are always in the way or being forgotten - give me a wallet anyday.
Diane was stupid for not taking care of her purse with a puppy in the house.
As for replacing it, it depends on the situation. A friend of ours borrowed our generator and it broke while they borrowed it. However I know they have no money to fix it and it would not be too hard for us to buy another one so I can't imagine asking them to pay for it.
It all depends on the situation and if you're friends work something out. They could always split the price.
Diane was stupid for not taking care of her purse with a puppy in the house.
As for replacing it, it depends on the situation. A friend of ours borrowed our generator and it broke while they borrowed it. However I know they have no money to fix it and it would not be too hard for us to buy another one so I can't imagine asking them to pay for it.
It all depends on the situation and if you're friends work something out. They could always split the price.
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