Democrats call for surrenderFollow

Jophed,

I spoke with my cousin last week and he's furious with the media coverage over what's going on over there. He's told me that it's nowhere near as bad as what they're portraying on tv. Basically there's one province where the majority of the rebellion is occuring and the rest of the country is at peace. His biggest wish is that the media would get out so they could do what they need to.


Achileez

I don't doubt it. I'm sure there's plenty of people in the Armed Forces in that region who are all for the war effort. Likewise, I know there's some who aren't and who legitimately feel the effort is in error and being done poorly. I won't claim to know the percentages of each but I doubt I've met the sole soldier in the entire military who feels that way.

You know what. You are an ***. If you think I don't honor them and their sacrifice you are just not thinking. Did I post those numbers jumping up and down with some sort of morbid excitement? I hurt for every wife and mother and father who lost someone, because I know what it is like to have daily nightmares about the army coming to your door with regrets. I don't want young wives like me to have to continue to live like that without good cause. That has been the underlying point of all of this. War sucks. People die. And even if you don't die, you might loose a limb, which has been happening in this conflict in astronomical numbers. And if you happen to come out of it unharmed, which statistically is what will happen, there are emotional scars which will never ever heal. Out of the couples I drank beer with on weekends pre-deployment, two have not gotten a divorce, including myself. If you are going to send a generation of men and women out to either die or impact their life in a dramatic way, have a damn good reason for it. Iraq wasn't it.

2000+ of my countrymen give their lives so Iraqis can have a fu[b]cking ELECTION??[/b]
Waht a fu[b][/b]cking joke.



and stop looking at the opinion of our troops on the front lines as an indicator of waht our policy should be. They are fighters... we pay the polititians to make those judgements based..... we pay the troops to do waht they are told.

Take it the wrong way if you like.. but the way the troops feel about this should really NOT MATTER. They do their jobs.. and the polititians do theirs...

All of this emotional extortion from the "Hill".. talking about how our Troops feel about leaving...... Sinse WHEN have the emotions of the troops ever supposed to come into play wehn our leader make thier decision about waht is right for this country???

or say in... London? or Madrid? or... uhh Jordan? or... Egypt? or.... Bali?


hmmmm...


Why aren't you over there fighting, mymainman?

Jophed,



That's right it's called victory.


Achileez

No we're fighting a war to keep these Islamo fascists from perpetrating another 911, or worse. And yes Iraq is central in this fight despite the dems lies about the motives of the administration.


Achileez

Kelvy,

I'm a victim of what? Success...a private education...well traveled...financially independent...homeowner...and no debt

Come on man you're adolescent attitude toward those who havn't been programmed the same as you is telling of your general outlook on life. Do you believe Iraq was central in this war on Islamic terrorism? Obviously not. However; most americans believed Bush was justified in his decisions. So instead of offering something other than a complete surrender to the Islamo fascists you continue to attack Bush and the soldiers for doing what they believe is protecting this country from 911's and the sons of b*tches that would engage in such activities.


Achileez

Varrus

honestly.. all of your "success" rhetoric is meaningless to me. All you have representing you are the opinions that you express here; not your boastful pandering... why don't you write a rap song while you're at it?


Iraq? the "hub of terror"? no.

Despite it's dictatorship, Iraq was one of the most progressive Islamic nation out there... Which is why you saw all of the leaders wearing suits and not "arab wear".

The MAJORITY of insurgents in Iraq are Iraqi Sunni Muslims...

DO YOU HONEsTLY THING, that is America was to leave.. that the native Sunni's would allow foreign Arabs into their country?

OUr presence their is the BIGGEST recruitment incentive for Al Qaida at the moment.




DO NOT mesh the soldiers in with the Bush administration and their motives.

The soldiers are doing their JOBS. Period. Other than thier dedication to their duty , they have NO say in any of this.



There was pretty much no Al Qaida in Iraq before we got there. If we would have concentrated our troops in actual places that MATTER, like the border of Pakistan and Afghanistan..... perhaps we actually would be doing somthing other than adding fuel to the fire.

YOU think that Al Qaida has suddenly stopped making plans to attack us? You are either naive or stupid.

Is it that hard for you to fathom that the motives in Iraq have been strictly political and monetary? Of course it is... because you are a victim of the hard-line... "Government is GOD" viewpoint of the traditional militaristic cowboy mindset that is the very reason that we are hated around the world now.

It is people like YOU that will impede any peace in this world.

the head terrorist state; which was Iraq despite what your liberal propaganda tells you.

ever stop to think that YOU are the one falling prey to propaghanda?

of course not.. how could somone so succesfull and rich fall prey to anything?




Anything to avoid a fight; no matter how many millions of your kinsmen are slaughetered.

Rest assured bro, if I found a people like YOU in MY back yard, I'd be blowing some fu[b][/b]cking heads off, and make NO mistake about THAT.



Edited, Tue Nov 22 12:13:36 2005 by Kelvyquayo

OH BLAH BLAH BLAH... U guys can argue all u want, Im a soldier currently and former Marine, I have lost two of my best friends in Iraq and think the President has done a crappy job of explaining whats going on. But if you all think leaving now is a good idea, think again, the second we leave, Iran will pretty much enable the insurgents to destabilize the new democratic government and put into place pretty much a puppet government that is pro IRan anti US. And yes we are winning the war over there, and yes the Iraqi army is coming along (my unit trains Iraqi troops), my commanders believe we have about two more years of keeping order there before widespread withdrawal. The Arab league today I believe voted to allow us to stay in Iraq until they can fend for themselves but we should start looking at withdrawal strategies, the freakin Arab league! These guys hate our guts and they have a cooler head than the Demsa dn antiwar folks here. Not to mention the fact that if we leave now b4 the mission is accomplished, would pretty much make my friends sacrifices mean absolutely nothing. Quit trying to assert who is right/wrong and look at the big picture of things

Where have I seen your name before....are you Niobia's friend?

And I am not so sure we should just pull out. I have generally held the belief that we should never have gone there to begin with, but now there we are and we are stuck with it. I believe it was Colin Powell who said something to the effect of "you break it you buy it" before any of this began. And to address if we are winning or not, I also suppose it just all depends on whose definition of "winning" you use.

I think we, as in people holding a different view that you do, are looking at the big picture as well, just from a different angle.

Edit: And if, and I do say if, we are not winning, shouldn't we look at another strategy? Some other way to do this? How long do we go with what we are doing before we decide it isn't working?



Edited, Tue Nov 22 13:09:31 2005 by Katarine

The timetable should be simple. When we have achieved our objectives, then we should "pull out." Simply saying that in x number of days we leave, regardless of achieving our objectives, is giving our enemies a victory timetable, all they have to do is hide until x days runs out and then come back and slaughter innocent people when we are gone.

When we do pull out, it means we will no longer be the security force in Iraq, Iraq will secure itself. However, we still will maintain bases and troops there because it is a very strategically advantageous location to keep a few air bases and an army unit or two for the security of the mid east.


Edited, Tue Nov 22 13:06:35 2005 by fhrugby