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Democrats call for surrenderFollow

#27 Nov 18 2005 at 3:16 PM Rating: Decent
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achileez wrote:
Fendy,

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You're getting all hot and bothered aren't you?


Actually I get a kick out of pointing that out to you libs who live under the false assumption you represent a majority of the american peoples views.





You're getting all hot and bothered aren't you?

Rinse and repeat!
#28 Nov 18 2005 at 3:24 PM Rating: Excellent
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Damn Kataphraktoi Smiley: motz
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#29 Nov 18 2005 at 3:27 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Actually I get a kick out of pointing that out to you libs who live under the false assumption you represent a majority of the american peoples views.



We do, if you only count people that actually have a view of their own, and not one prescribed to them.
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#30REDACTED, Posted: Nov 18 2005 at 4:24 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Kelvy,
#31 Nov 18 2005 at 4:35 PM Rating: Excellent
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achileez wrote:
When confronted with something that doesn't sit well with you your first reaction is to call the offending party a name and in so doing this allows you to disregard anything they've said that might challenge your world view. This ignorance is born out of a fear to actually allow people to decide for themselves what they think is right and wrong


umm, pot? kettle?
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#32 Nov 18 2005 at 4:41 PM Rating: Decent
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Danalog wrote:
achileez wrote:

When confronted with something that doesn't sit well with you your first reaction is to call the offending party a name and in so doing this allows you to disregard anything they've said that might challenge your world view. This ignorance is born out of a fear to actually allow people to decide for themselves what they think is right and wrong


umm, pot? kettle?


aww, beat me to it.
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#33 Nov 18 2005 at 4:42 PM Rating: Decent
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Achillez
Quote:
This ignorance is born out of a fear to actually allow people to decide for themselves what they think is right and wrong, and yes this is rooted in most peoples religion, because for you there is no right and wrong only a that shaded grey area that liberal professors have inundated you with.

Peace to all...and have a wonderful weekend, I know I will as I will be watching 'Hannity and Colmes' all weekend on my dvr and the PAX channel.



Stupid tether!!!

Achileez



FTFY.

#34 Nov 18 2005 at 6:15 PM Rating: Decent
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When i read the garbage that Varrus is spouting, I get this mental image of the captain of the titanic standing on the bridge of his sinking ship, asking "Iceberg? What ******' iceberg.

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#35 Nov 18 2005 at 6:22 PM Rating: Good
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I've always wondered why varus only posts during the week while he's at work. I mean, with all his riches, surely he has a computer at home?

And I know if he responds to this, it will be to say he's too busy with all his "honeys" out sailing the ocean blue.

But still. As much as he loves to argue and rile everyone up...
#36 Nov 18 2005 at 9:13 PM Rating: Good
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Blast, I was only an internet connection loss from my very first pot meet kettle. D;

Damn you Charter!
#37 Nov 18 2005 at 9:52 PM Rating: Excellent
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I don't know much about politics. I dont pretend to.

Even I know enough to stay in to completion.

Fu[b][/b]ck pulling out.
#38 Nov 18 2005 at 11:37 PM Rating: Decent
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I see you still haven't grasped rational thought, v.

Occupying Iraq in the first place was wrong. But now that we're stuck there, there's no viable way of leaving until the insurgency is dealt with - which is not going to happen, probably in any of our lifetimes.

Do *you* think that our presence in Iraq, inciting Muslims to slaughter anyone they can come into contact with, is the best course of action? Four years so far, and there isn't much progress to see. Or do you think that continued mass suicide bombings is a positive sign? I know you're a maniacal racist, so maybe this is to your liking. And nuking the entire region would be too...clean.

*You* have no concept of patriotism. Pulling out now is not an option, regardless of your political leanings. But we can still support our troops in the hopes that they don't die horribly in this quagmire. What you fail to grasp is the difference in supporting the troops on the groupnd, as opposed to the illigitimate reasons for being there.
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#39 Nov 19 2005 at 4:40 AM Rating: Decent
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Have any of you hawks ever considered the possibility that the insurgency will continue as long as US forces remain in Iraq? I know the admin likes to say that every insurgent is a evil terrorist extremist, which is ridiculous. Obviously some are Iraqi nationalists and patriots that are fighting what is, from their point of view, an illegal and immoral occupation by foriegn invaders.

You must understand that all people have a love of their homelands, not just right-wing Americans. Can you imagine what would happen if we were conquered by China and occupied by the red army? My neighborhood is well armed. There would be sniping, bombings, outright street fighting and widespread sabotage and assasinations of locals who cooperate and work for the enemy. And we would be justified! I am not a conservative, nationalist or a Christian but you better believe I would put my closeted rifle to work. Meanwhile back in Beijing the talking heads would be calling us a few dead-enders and extremist terrorists.

If we stay in Iraq for another year, or five , or ten or twenty the insurgency will continue no matter how many we kill and capture. We can pack it up or commit genocide. Those are our two realistic options.

#40 Nov 19 2005 at 9:49 AM Rating: Decent
Whether you agree with the war in Iraq or not to pull out now would be a complete success for the same type of islamo fascists that bombed us 911. Do the Democrats hate America and freedom that much? Or are they so obsessed with regaining control of the government that they would gladly surrender to an enemy that will continue to threaten all of western civilization?
----------------------------------------------------

there are 100 ways to skinn a cat. if you find one that will NEVER work, try another.

the path we are on will NEVER work. EVER. history has taught us as much. the crusades, the british colonization efforts that ended up in abandoning israel to the homeless jews that flocked there during ww1 and ww2. to the russians attempt in afganistan that went on for 10 years and cost them billions of dolllars and over 15,000 troops.

the extremist won the second we captured hussin and then tried to stay. they knew it then, they know it now.

your mentality is the exact reason vietnam lasted so long. the exact reason so many more people died that did not have to die.

the dems are not calling for surrender, they are trying to take this nation off a dead end path that will only lead to more wasted human life and misery as long as we are on it.

i am a nobody and i can tell you the absolute most liekly way to INCREASE terrorist attacks through out the world. desacrate the koran and send christian troop to occupy a muslim country.

stupid is as stupid does. we are getting our reward for our stupidity and ignorance.

you are not seriously suggesting staying in the quicksand because it would make us look bad if we tried to find a way around it are you?

Bush is.
#41 Nov 20 2005 at 10:41 AM Rating: Good
Quagmire.

We leave: Insurgents retake cities, civil war ensues, we end up fighting the Islmaic Fundementalist state that forms out of the ashes.

We stay: the insurgents have inspiration and a target. Someday, we might knock some sense into the Iraqi army so they can fight for themselves & for their own country. We keep bases all over Iraq to help out the Iraqis, provide a target for the ramining insurgents, and have a launchpad to attack any of the other Arab countries that mouth of to us or have "WMDs".
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#42REDACTED, Posted: Nov 21 2005 at 12:53 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Nadenu,
#43 Nov 21 2005 at 1:04 PM Rating: Decent
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I've always wondered why varus only posts during the week while he's at work. I mean, with all his riches, surely he has a computer at home?


you mean people actually come to forums when they're at home?
Oh.
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#44REDACTED, Posted: Nov 21 2005 at 1:05 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Debi,
#45 Nov 21 2005 at 1:16 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:

We leave: Insurgents retake cities, civil war ensues, we end up fighting the Islmaic Fundementalist state that forms out of the ashes.

We stay: the insurgents have inspiration and a target. Someday, we might knock some sense into the Iraqi army so they can fight for themselves & for their own country. We keep bases all over Iraq to help out the Iraqis, provide a target for the ramining insurgents, and have a launchpad to attack any of the other Arab countries that mouth of to us or have "WMDs".


Best case: the half-*** "government" that we've planted there tells us to get the **** out. Then we leave. Then they do whatever the **** they want. We're not rich or powerful enough to police the globe anymore.
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#46 Nov 21 2005 at 1:21 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
support a complete and total victory similar to ww2.



yes, well, in WWII there was actually a tangible entity within which contained the enemy..

"terrorism" has no real borders...


well... not until we gave it borders... such as in Iraq... however this still does nothing for the rest of the big picture..





you DO realize that before all of this.. that Iraq was one of the most progessive and Non-fundamentalist Muslim states out there? Which is why you would see Iraqis in suits and ties rather than the traditional garb....
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#47 Nov 21 2005 at 1:21 PM Rating: Good

I saw this today, which is a snippet from a NY Times opinion column. You have to have a subscription to NY Times Select to actually read the thing online, so I will just cut/paste this part of it. I am not entirely sure yet if I agree with it, I just found it interesting.



"So the question isn't whether things will be ugly after American forces leave Iraq. They probably will. The question, instead, is whether it makes sense to keep the war going for another year or two, which is all the time we realistically have.

Pessimists think that Iraq will fall into chaos whenever we leave. If so, we're better off leaving sooner rather than later. As a Marine officer quoted by James Fallows in the current Atlantic Monthly puts it, "We can lose in Iraq and destroy our Army, or we can just lose."

And there's a good case to be made that our departure will actually improve matters. As Mr. Murtha pointed out in his speech, the insurgency derives much of its support from the perception that it's resisting a foreign occupier. Once we're gone, the odds are that Iraqis, who don't have a tradition of religious extremism, will turn on fanatical foreigners like Zarqawi.

The only way to justify staying in Iraq is to make the case that stretching the U.S. army to its breaking point will buy time for something good to happen. I don't think you can make that case convincingly. So Mr. Murtha is right: it's time to leave."


Edited to make it more obvious which part was in the times.







Edited, Mon Nov 21 13:32:13 2005 by Katarine
#48REDACTED, Posted: Nov 21 2005 at 1:31 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Katarine,
#49 Nov 21 2005 at 1:35 PM Rating: Decent
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A perfect example of liberal propaganda; allow me to expound.


if by "liberal propaganda", you mean "a truthful statement" or at the very least "a good point", then yes. this is a good example of liberal propaganda
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#50 Nov 21 2005 at 1:36 PM Rating: Decent
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In the next paragraph they make the assumption that our military is being "streched" to its "breaking points."



and you aren't you assuming that it is not?




didn't I hear that they were taking old refrigerator parts to armour thier HUM-Vs with? or was that more liberal propagahnda??


Seriously.. WHY HAVEN'T WE WON YET??????? We ARE the BIG BAD U.S. Military!!!??!?

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#51REDACTED, Posted: Nov 21 2005 at 1:54 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Why then do they feel the need to make unsubstantiated claims about the military without any evidence to support such rhetoric. The fact is the author of this article wrote exactly what liberals want to hear. How does one determine whether the military is stretched to thin? The author pointedly ommited any evidence to support the assertions they assume to be factual. When you're chances of getting into a car wreck exceed the chances of being killed in the mid-east and the media is describing this as a "quagmire"; or that the military is "stretched to thin"; or that it would be "good" to surrender and leave how can any intelligent person take that seriously? Of course that's why they cater to liberals.
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