Personally I find it very instructional when a Canadian tells me what is wrong with my country. I mean, really, and culture that can produce Anne Murray and Alex Trebeck must be doing it right, right?
EDIT:
Ah, hell, I'll go there. It must be nice not having to worry about a single serious security threat in the last nearly 2 centuries. Sitting on the shoulders of the biggest, baddest hardest hitting stick the world has ever seen makes it pretty tough to justify getting yourselves involved in any significant way with world affairs. What's the big foreign conflict you guys are involved in right now? Oh yeah, we don't like your cheap timber. Well, get bent. Charge us more for wood.
Edited, Tue Nov 15 09:44:33 2005 by MoebiusLord
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What do Canadians have to worry about other than the occasional badger attack or hockey strikes? For the most part we keep to ourselves perhaps the main reason we don't have people so angry with us that they fly planes into buildings. But that is only because we have Americuh protecting us, right? In this I feel the need to bring to the comparison table Norway, Sweden or whatever nordic country floats your boat. Norway spends 4 billion on Military annually, they barely have one. Why arent people fu[/b]cking with them all the time? Because who the fu[b]ck wants to bother with Norway? They arent stepping on anyones toes, Just like Canada.
About Canadas military? What has it done? I find your lack of knowledge of World War I & II stereotypical of american ignorance of everything not american. Also in recent years the Canadian military has become focused on peace keeping and joint operation with the United States much like the Canadian military operations in Afghanistan or Iraq back in 1991. Also since we don't particularly need a giant military industrial complex to protect us (for the reasons stated above) we have been able to be in the black every year for the last decade and are paying off our national debt while you guys have been running up a tab that threatens to destabilize the world economy.
So once again we must come back to the question what is Canada's biggest worry. That is simple. The United States of America. GW's deficit spending fiscal outlook has damaged the US green back thus inflating the cost of the canadian dollar which hurts Canada/US trade. He has threatened to sit back and watch us burn since we would not participate in NAMD even though NAMD threatens a new nuclear race and since it contradicts the accords signed by Nixon back in the day. The US administration runs roughshod with what it wants to do an imposes crippling trade tariffs when Canada ******* eg - Beef, Softwood, Potato, with talks of corn subsidies being next. US pollution is melting the polar ice caps actually opening up the North West Passage. Turns out the NWP will be in Canadian territorial waters but the US has stated that it will view it as an international waterway because they dont want to have to deal with duties and tax. So not only is America threatening our economy, ignoring international law and violating our rights they are ******** at us for being the quiet guys that never do anything from the north. Sh[/b]it we should jersey your *** and give you a face wash in your own bullshi[b]t.
[b][/b]
Edited, Tue Nov 15 10:08:37 2005 by bodhisattva
Edited, Tue Nov 15 11:53:19 2005 by bodhisattva
About Canadas military? What has it done? I find your lack of knowledge of World War I & II stereotypical of american ignorance of everything not american. Also in recent years the Canadian military has become focused on peace keeping and joint operation with the United States much like the Canadian military operations in Afghanistan or Iraq back in 1991. Also since we don't particularly need a giant military industrial complex to protect us (for the reasons stated above) we have been able to be in the black every year for the last decade and are paying off our national debt while you guys have been running up a tab that threatens to destabilize the world economy.
So once again we must come back to the question what is Canada's biggest worry. That is simple. The United States of America. GW's deficit spending fiscal outlook has damaged the US green back thus inflating the cost of the canadian dollar which hurts Canada/US trade. He has threatened to sit back and watch us burn since we would not participate in NAMD even though NAMD threatens a new nuclear race and since it contradicts the accords signed by Nixon back in the day. The US administration runs roughshod with what it wants to do an imposes crippling trade tariffs when Canada ******* eg - Beef, Softwood, Potato, with talks of corn subsidies being next. US pollution is melting the polar ice caps actually opening up the North West Passage. Turns out the NWP will be in Canadian territorial waters but the US has stated that it will view it as an international waterway because they dont want to have to deal with duties and tax. So not only is America threatening our economy, ignoring international law and violating our rights they are ******** at us for being the quiet guys that never do anything from the north. Sh[/b]it we should jersey your *** and give you a face wash in your own bullshi[b]t.
[b][/b]
Edited, Tue Nov 15 10:08:37 2005 by bodhisattva
Edited, Tue Nov 15 11:53:19 2005 by bodhisattva
Bode - 100 Holy Paladin - Lightbringer
bodhisattva wrote:
In this I feel the need to bring to the comparison table Norway, Sweden or whatever nordic country floats your boat. Norway spends 4 billion on Military annually, they barely have one.
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
bodhisattva wrote:
What do Canadians have to worry about other than the occasional badger attack or hockey strikes? For the most part we keep to ourselves perhaps the main reason we don't have people so angry with us that they fly planes into buildings. But that is only because we have Americuh protecting us, right? In this I feel the need to bring to the comparison table Norway, Sweden or whatever nordic country floats your boat. Norway spends 4 billion on Military annually, they barely have one. Why arent people fu[/b]cking with them all the time? Because who the fu[b]ck wants to bother with Norway? They arent stepping on anyones toes, Just like Canada.
About Canadas military? What has it done? I find your lack of knowledge of World War I & II stereotypical of american ignorance of everything not american. Also in recent years the Canadian military has become focused on peace keeping and joint operation with the United States much like the Canadian military operations in Afghanistan or Iraq back in 1991. Also since we don't particularly need a giant military industrial complex to protect us (for the reasons stated above) we have been able to be in the black every year for the last decade and are paying off our national debt while you guys have been running up a tab that threatens to destabilize the world economy.
So once again we must come back to the question what is Canada's biggest worry. That is simple. The United States of America. GW's deficit spending fiscal outlook has damaged the US green back thus inflating the cost of the canadian dollar which hurts Canada/US trade. He has threatened to sit back and watch us burn since we would not participate in NAMD even though NAMD threatens a new nuclear race and since it contradicts the accords signed by Nixon back in the day. The US administration runs roughshod with what it wants to do an imposes crippling trade tariffs when Canada ******* eg - Beef, Softwood, Potato, with talks of corn subsidies being next. US pollution is melting the polar ice caps actually opening up the North West Passage. Turns out the NWP will be in Canadian territorial waters but the US has stated that it will view it as an international waterway because they dont want to have to deal with duties and tax. So not only is America threatening our economy, ignoring international law and violating our rights they are ******** at us for being the quiet guys that never do anything from the north. Sh[/b]it we should jersey your *** and give you face wash in your own bullshi[b]t.
[b][/b]
Edited, Tue Nov 15 10:08:37 2005 by bodhisattva
About Canadas military? What has it done? I find your lack of knowledge of World War I & II stereotypical of american ignorance of everything not american. Also in recent years the Canadian military has become focused on peace keeping and joint operation with the United States much like the Canadian military operations in Afghanistan or Iraq back in 1991. Also since we don't particularly need a giant military industrial complex to protect us (for the reasons stated above) we have been able to be in the black every year for the last decade and are paying off our national debt while you guys have been running up a tab that threatens to destabilize the world economy.
So once again we must come back to the question what is Canada's biggest worry. That is simple. The United States of America. GW's deficit spending fiscal outlook has damaged the US green back thus inflating the cost of the canadian dollar which hurts Canada/US trade. He has threatened to sit back and watch us burn since we would not participate in NAMD even though NAMD threatens a new nuclear race and since it contradicts the accords signed by Nixon back in the day. The US administration runs roughshod with what it wants to do an imposes crippling trade tariffs when Canada ******* eg - Beef, Softwood, Potato, with talks of corn subsidies being next. US pollution is melting the polar ice caps actually opening up the North West Passage. Turns out the NWP will be in Canadian territorial waters but the US has stated that it will view it as an international waterway because they dont want to have to deal with duties and tax. So not only is America threatening our economy, ignoring international law and violating our rights they are ******** at us for being the quiet guys that never do anything from the north. Sh[/b]it we should jersey your *** and give you face wash in your own bullshi[b]t.
[b][/b]
Edited, Tue Nov 15 10:08:37 2005 by bodhisattva
QFT
#31REDACTED,
Posted: Nov 15 2005 at 11:28 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) This is the perfect mentality to describe how the democrats feel these glorious days. What their America is supposed to be is changing beyond their ability to control the populace. The more the people have access to information, like this forum, the greater their understanding becomes. It's no longer the ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN's that define the media and what we choose to read, and by default believe. So as the Dems descent towards oblivion continues we're giong to be seeing quite a bit of these America is damaged irreversibly and unless we change our wicked ways, which only the dems can do, then America will be finished.
Achileez Aren't you Varus?
Bode - 100 Holy Paladin - Lightbringer
Quote:
Quote:
How is Iran like Vietnam? In Vietnam we saw over 100,000 US casualties over about 13 years. In Vietnam we were supposedly there to the keep the country from communist occupation, specifically from the Chinese encroaching from the North.
In the 1960's communism, China, and the Soviet Union were very real threats. In Iraq we are supposedly replacing one small dictatorial government (and securing our access to Iraqi oil).
In the 1960's communism, China, and the Soviet Union were very real threats. In Iraq we are supposedly replacing one small dictatorial government (and securing our access to Iraqi oil).
Yeah, so what? Vietnam wasn't a democracy to begin with. It wasn't our place to protect them from communism, and the noble effort to do so was more for propaganda to feed the masses; what we were actually doing was cleaning up a botched job the French started, sucked us into, and had enough sense to bail from leaving us holding the bag. Bottom line is, we invaded a sovereign nation to enforce our own vision upon it. How is that NOT like Iraq's enforced "regime change"?
Vietnam was hardly a sovereign nation with the Soviet Union supporting and supplying the communist North Vietnamese side. The Soviet supported North Vietnam sent in thousands of guerilla fighters into the DEMOCRATIC South Vietnam to attack the population and infrastructure. John Fitzgerald Kennedy is inaugurated as the 35th U.S. President and declares "...we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe, to insure the survival and the success of liberty.†The US and the UN aides the South against these attacks by sending in advisors, supplies and money.
The North supplied and trained by the soviets for more than a decade invades South Vietnam on the Ho Chi Min trail. The US and the UN allies commit troops to actual conflict and the traditional start of the Vietnam War occurs. Our goals in Vietnam were noble and justified, it was the application of these goals in the greatly limited rules of combat that the UN forced upon us that resulted in a failure to achieve the goals, despite great loss to the US and its allies. The horrors that befell the South Vietnamese after the south fell and especially the Cambodians under the Soviet and North Vietnamese supported Khmer Rogue are testaments to the justification of the original war efforts. The mistakes made in the Vietnam War in the greatly limited rules of war applied by the UN are the reason why the US opposed getting the UN involved in the current Iraqi War.
2 posts
1) wow down time is to long
2) i am lvl 60 and still have three green items
3) mom didnt cuddle with em enough
4)people think, other people give a **** what they think
5) when i was 12 i had a moped that got 80 mpg (buy fing mopeds not suv's ding bats)
6) tuesdays suck
2) i am lvl 60 and still have three green items
3) mom didnt cuddle with em enough
4)people think, other people give a **** what they think
5) when i was 12 i had a moped that got 80 mpg (buy fing mopeds not suv's ding bats)
6) tuesdays suck
2 posts
o one more thing i forgot to add STFU and play wow who cares
Edited, Tue Nov 15 12:14:48 2005 by kimtar
Edited, Tue Nov 15 12:14:48 2005 by kimtar
Ambrya wrote:
No single point is by any means a dealbreaker in and of itself. I just feel it would be selfish not to consider this issue and the effect it will have when I'm dead and the child I created has to continue to live in a world that has become a cesspool.
Got it. So it's just one in a long list of things that would make you think about trying not to have one, much like the crime rate or your income. You make very valid arguments most of the time, and the original statement seemed a tad heavy on the shock value. I was surprised to see you take a slide down the 'ol slippery slope.
Of course next time I could just skip reading your posts, but I was bored. Mea culpa.
I just have to ask again...isn't Varrus/achileez supposed to be banned?
Ambrya wrote:
I notice that while you expend a great deal of effort rambling on and on about whether or not the numbers are legit, you fail to address the material point, which is that the fact that the vast majority of our debt is being held by Asian governments puts us in a dangerous and untenable position.
The subject of who holds the debt is a totally separate issue. You'll get seasoned economists who'll disagree over whether having someone hold your debt is a benefit to you or to them, so I think it's silly for us to debate that point.
My main point was to take issue with your statement that 1/3rd of our federal revenue was being spent on the interest of the debt.
That figure is *still* absurd at first glance. I would assume it was taken by calculating the total debt and then multiplying by some standard interest rate. That's great and all, but that's not how the math works. It's also not how our budget process works. There is no budget line item that feeds 600 billion dollars each year into paying off the national debt.
Quote:
By the way, since I don't have the time to go digging through the whole site you gave the URL to, but the $3.3 to $4.2 trillion figures seemed a little fishy, so I did a little digging of my own at the Bureau of the Public Debt Homepage and here's what is sitting there right at the top of the page:
According to my math, that's over $8 trillion.
Quote:
According to my math, that's over $8 trillion.
BTW. Debt held by public is various bonds held by non government hands. That's money we have to pay. That's the 4.2T I was linking (my numbers were from the last complete year, not up to the minute). You really can't count the intergovernment holdings part because while it's counted as "debt", it's debt owed to the government. When a government program has a surplus, it spends that money buying t-bills from the treasury (it invests it). So the treasury assumes that money as a "debt", but you really can't count that as part of the national debt, since it's not really money that we've borrowed. It's money our government has invested.
So yeah. My 4.2T is the more accurate measure of how much the government is "in the red" so to speak. I used the final numbers from 2004 because it's really irrelevant to talk about government spending numbers and debt when you don't have the complete figures for everything. You're in essense comparing the current debt to "nothing". By using a complete set of yearly figures, you can put those numbers in context.
Quote:
For that matter, so does the figure of only $1 trillion in four years. You might want to check out http://www.publicdebt.treas.gov/opd/opdhisto4.htm, which gives a historical breakdown of where the debt has stood each year. According to that, the debt went up TWO trillion dollars in four years, from $5.8 trillion in Sept 2001 to $7.9 in Sept 2005.
Again. You are counting both sets of numbers as "national debt". While that may be technically true from the treasury departments perspective (they're just counting the value of T-bills out there), only the "debt held by public" is *actual* debt. It's either extremely naive, or extremely misleading to count the intergoverment debt as some sort of negative economic effect.
Quote:
Maybe it's YOUR figures that need a little more scrutiny.
No. My figures are accurate and (more importantly) relevant. You made a statement about federal budgeting. You claimed that we *spent* 1/3rd of our federal revenue paying off the interest of the national debt.
Here is the historical congressional budget office figures for the last 32 years. All values are reported in adjusted dollars and as a percentage of GDP. I challenge you to find where 1/3rd of the federal revenue is being spent paying interest on the national debt.
Ultimately, you can show those other treasury figures all you want, but it's the budget that tells us how the government spent it's money last year. And I've looked pretty hard but can't find a line item in there that allocates 1/3rd or anywhere close to 1/3rd of our federal revenue on interest payments.
Your statement was blatantly false. That's all I was trying to point out. I'm not sure what kind of voodoo math you used to make it, but it's simply not true.
King Nobby wrote:
More words please
Al Greenspan says you're f[i][/i]ucked.
Good enough for me.
Good enough for me.
"I started out with nothin' and I still got most of it left" - Seasick Steve
My top 5?
1-4: G.W. Bush
5: marijuana policy
1-4: G.W. Bush
5: marijuana policy
publiusvarus wrote:
we all know liberals are well adjusted american citizens who only want what's best for society. While conservatives are evil money grubbing scum who only want to sh*t on the little man and rob the world of its resources.
#42REDACTED,
Posted: Nov 15 2005 at 10:59 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Well racism is BULL ****, even if you acknowledge the slavery of our nations when it was in its youth and the segregation of the early 1900’s the US is still one of the least racist world powers ever in history. I think our nation’s biggest problem is poverty and the Democratic Party.
Quote:
Well racism is BULL sh*t, even if you acknowledge the slavery of our nations when it was in its youth and the segregation of the early 1900’s the US is still one of the least racist world powers ever in history. I think our nation’s biggest problem is poverty and the Democratic Party.
Ok, thanks for that, Timmy. Now, run along back to the WoW forums until you get pubes. Then continue to stay away.
Your wife likes my twigs and berrys shaved so until she changes her mind they stay shaved.
penisielen wrote:
Your wife likes my twigs and berrys shaved so until she changes her mind they stay shaved.
WOW! BEST COMEBACK EVAR11!!1!one!11!
moe will be ever so crushed.
Mistress Nadenu wrote:
penisielen wrote:
Your wife likes my twigs and berrys shaved so until she changes her mind they stay shaved.
WOW! BEST COMEBACK EVAR11!!1!one!11!
moe will be ever so crushed.
Not to mention Mrs. Moe!
penisielen wrote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Your wife likes my twigs and berrys shaved so until she changes her mind they stay shaved.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Poor girl only gets a twig huh?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Your wife likes my twigs and berrys shaved so until she changes her mind they stay shaved.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Poor girl only gets a twig huh?
If the current issues are such a threat to the nation that it will suffer long term effects, isn't it worht paying attention to the issues of the day?
Yes, every single last problem with this nation boils down to the breakdown in representation. It is in the DNA of a democracy to self-destruct. The best we can do is to make sure that the government can efficiently dispatch the duty which it was created for. A Democracy falls when it becomes so innefecient that it no longer solves issues for the populace that puts it in power.
So, fundamentally, I completely agree with you Moe. The underlying issue is that our dichotimal political climate is tearing down the fabric of representation that we need. However, we cannot overlook the issues concerning the modern day. If the government can ignore the issues, then it fails as a Democracy. Evolution is what got us this far (and put us at the top).
Yes, every single last problem with this nation boils down to the breakdown in representation. It is in the DNA of a democracy to self-destruct. The best we can do is to make sure that the government can efficiently dispatch the duty which it was created for. A Democracy falls when it becomes so innefecient that it no longer solves issues for the populace that puts it in power.
So, fundamentally, I completely agree with you Moe. The underlying issue is that our dichotimal political climate is tearing down the fabric of representation that we need. However, we cannot overlook the issues concerning the modern day. If the government can ignore the issues, then it fails as a Democracy. Evolution is what got us this far (and put us at the top).
Quote:
If the current issues are such a threat to the nation that it will suffer long term effects, isn't it worht paying attention to the issues of the day?
To what end?
Quote:
Yes, every single last problem with this nation boils down to the breakdown in representation. It is in the DNA of a democracy to self-destruct. The best we can do is to make sure that the government can efficiently dispatch the duty which it was created for. A Democracy falls when it becomes so innefecient that it no longer solves issues for the populace that puts it in power.
You went to public school in a bad neighborhood, didn't you?
Quote:
So, fundamentally, I completely agree with you Moe. The underlying issue is that our dichotimal political climate is tearing down the fabric of representation that we need. However, we cannot overlook the issues concerning the modern day. If the government can ignore the issues, then it fails as a Democracy. Evolution is what got us this far (and put us at the top).
For starters, don't use a dollar word when a fifty center will get your point across.
That being said, the nature of our system is adversarial. We have locked ourselves in to an A vs. B struggle that will continue to play out in a consistently more polarizing fashion. The solution can not come from within the system.
The thing you fail to take in to account in your post is that by addressing the long term goals, the short term issues become truely resolveable. We can wipe out hunger through compromise. We can wipe out abortion as convenience through compromise. We can eliminate poverty through compromise. We can walk tall with meaning through compromise.
In your house, with your family and friends, you can be as uncompromising as the day is long. In the public spaces and the common areas of this country, where you and your beliefs cease to be the sole arbiter of social morality, compromise can keep the country moving forward on the right track. Without it, the only logical outcome is a middle eastern style schizm across our society.
How can you compromise wehn your society is based on "A vs. B"?
Edited, Wed Nov 16 12:16:25 2005 by Kelvyquayo
Edited, Wed Nov 16 12:16:25 2005 by Kelvyquayo
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