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#27 Nov 14 2005 at 4:29 PM Rating: Good
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First off, while "conservative groups" may well oppose it, Joph is right in that the Republican party as a group does support it (as does the Democrat party as well I'd assume).

I'd assume that the groups being mentioned are various Libertarian groups who tend to oppose any government expense/program on general principle. The Republican party is going to look at the benefits and costs and in this case, it does make a heck of a lot of sense.


Jophiel wrote:
Three billion is a hell of a lot of money. I fail to see how the government isn't able to sell off the wavelengths without buying everyone a converter. One isn't really required to do the other at all.


Actually, while I'm not 100% on this, I seem to recall that there are laws/regulations/whatever requiring that "broadcast" TV be available to everyone. I'm sure if we dug into the bowels of the charters for the original broadcast networks, we could figure out the details, but basically due to the way it's regulated the network broadcasts have to be available to anyone with a basic TV. And since not all TVs can handle a digital signal, they can't redo the broadcast frequency ranges without making sure everyone can recieve the new ranges and decode them properly.


At least part of this probably has to do with tying the networks into the whole emergency broadcast system as well. Just like phone service, TV is considered part of that system and is subsidized to some extent as a result. So yeah. I think there is a requirement that everyone have access to this stuff. I couldn't nail down where the regulation or law is, but I would assume it must be there or they'd not go through the trouble of spending the 3 billion.
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#28 Nov 14 2005 at 4:33 PM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
First off, while "conservative groups" may well oppose it, Joph is right in that the Republican party as a group does support it (as does the Democrat party as well I'd assume).

I'd assume that the groups being mentioned are various Libertarian groups who tend to oppose any government expense/program on general principle. The Republican party is going to look at the benefits and costs and in this case, it does make a heck of a lot of sense.
"Assume" makes an cu[/i]nt out of "u" and "me"

Oh, wait, is that 'cu[i]
ntume'?
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#29 Nov 14 2005 at 4:54 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
At least part of this probably has to do with tying the networks into the whole emergency broadcast system as well. Just like phone service, TV is considered part of that system and is subsidized to some extent as a result. So yeah. I think there is a requirement that everyone have access to this stuff. I couldn't nail down where the regulation or law is, but I would assume it must be there or they'd not go through the trouble of spending the 3 billion.
It's not at all as if they'd give a $3 billion subsidy to appease the kajillion dollar media industry with its various networks who make piles of money in advertising dollars and has a vested interest in making sure Joe Public can continue watching those ads.

You'd have to find me something legal in writing before I accept a federal mandate that we all get to watch TV. There's a vast difference between the signals being accessible to all and the government providing everyone with the equipment to access said signals. Sh[/i]it, if that's the case, I want someone from the government out soon fixing my house aerial. I can't help but think that if the subsidy [i]was part of a legal mandate, that bit would get some press time in the story as well and people wouldn't need to defend the subsidy as "good for the economy" but would just say "We gotta do this by law".

Last I checked, the EBS (well, it the EAS these days) worked just fine through the radio.

Edited, Mon Nov 14 17:18:05 2005 by Jophiel
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#30 Nov 14 2005 at 6:12 PM Rating: Good
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So this means they'll buy free television sets for everyone without one, right?


#31 Nov 14 2005 at 6:23 PM Rating: Good
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Heh. I don't really feel like digging through some government legal documents. I'm just going with what makes sense.

I agree that they're not required to provide the equipment to recieve the broadcast, but this is a bit different. In this case, they are changing the standards in such a way that many TVs cannot recieve them anymore. So people who had already obtained the equipment on their own can no longer recieve the broadcasts.

By the same token, I'm reasonably sure there's a law somewhere that says that your phone company cannot arbitrarily change their network such that customer's phones no longer work without providing those customers a "fix" of some kind. I kinda see this the same way. The FCC is going to make a major change of the broadcast frequency ranges *and* the format that broadcast TV is sent in. This will render a number of TV sets that could previously recieve those broadcasts unable to do so anymore. I can see how they would be required to provide a means for people with older sets to still recieve the same service before they can do it.


Don't see how it matters much anyway. It's not like there's a huge uproar on either side on this issue.
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#32 Nov 14 2005 at 6:44 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
Heh. I don't really feel like digging through some government legal documents. I'm just going with what makes sense.
Making media conglomerates happy makes sense. Avoiding pissy voters makes sense. In fact, it makes more sense than fictious legal matters you think might possibly exist to explain it.

Per The Washington Post,
"It seems awfully high," said Rep. Lee Terry (R. Neb.), who sits on the House Energy and Commerce Committee. "It is not a constitutional right to own and watch a TV. . . . I can't envision that we'd go for a number that's triple what was our upper end."
[...]
Before the deadline, millions of Americans will have to buy either new digital TVs or the set-top converter boxes. Lawmakers are considering a subsidy in large part because of a fear of a political backlash if TV screens go blank.


That along would indicate that this isn't being driven by any legal FCC mandate to insure television viewing. In fact, quite a few Republicans seem to think the idea is fairly insane and they're not quibbling about FCC regulations. On the other hand, the $3bil pricetag was suggested by a Republican and is backed by other Republicans. I haven't heard much Democratic response at all one way or the other.

Edited, Mon Nov 14 19:02:16 2005 by Jophiel
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#33 Nov 14 2005 at 7:01 PM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
I haven't heard much Democratic response at all one way or the other.


3 letters:

PBS


I'll go out on another assumptive limb and say that there's a good number of Democrats in Congress who'd go apesh[/b]it if poor minority citizens could no longer see PBS on a 40 year old set powered by handcrank using old beat up rabbit ears for reception...
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#34 Nov 14 2005 at 7:09 PM Rating: Excellent
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Could be. Bully for them and for random guesses from you Smiley: laugh

I still remember being struck by the irony of seeing Laura Bush on PBS promos sitting with the "poor minority" children and teaching them the joy of reading and all that. Wanted to yell into the television that maybe she should talk to her husband some night about not trying to kill PBS's federal funding.
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#35 Nov 14 2005 at 8:10 PM Rating: Good
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Psssst...

PBS is where the Liberals broadcast their mind control waves... Didn't you know?
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#36 Nov 14 2005 at 11:13 PM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
Could be. Bully for them and for random guesses from you Smiley: laugh

I still remember being struck by the irony of seeing Laura Bush on PBS promos sitting with the "poor minority" children and teaching them the joy of reading and all that. Wanted to yell into the television that maybe she should talk to her husband some night about not trying to kill PBS's federal funding.

Maybe you wouldn't mind so much if you had cable.
Just sayin'.
#37 Nov 14 2005 at 11:22 PM Rating: Excellent
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Ahhhh... but since I moved, I don't have an aerial either and so I get no television and don't have to see Mrs. Bush at all! Hooray!
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#38 Nov 15 2005 at 7:23 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Three billion is a hell of a lot of money.


I see so many newspaper articles decrying things and throwing out the single figure billion cost or whatever, in the knowledge that to the individual reader it sounds like an unfathomably large amount of money.

I do think "The right to TV" is a bit ridiculous but just a little pet hate I have at the moment: In terms of national level spending £3bn really isn't a lot of money, especially as such figures you see thrown around like this are usually spread over a number of years.

For example, I see articles about gubberment contracts of a couple of billion over 10 years say, followed by outcry of the huge cost. Err numbnuts (I think in my head), 2bn over 10 years is actually £200m per year. The department you are talking about has a budget of £100bn per year. The cost is frikkin 0.2% of the total budget.
#39 Nov 15 2005 at 7:33 AM Rating: Decent
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Or to put it another way, if you went on a night out, and took $100 with you, and your friend asks if he can borrow 20 cents to make a phone call, would you be outraged?
#40 Nov 15 2005 at 9:48 AM Rating: Excellent
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Erm, the US doesn't have $100. This is all deficit spending. The question is, if you went out with your friend and nickle and dimed him all night for drinks and smokes and parking and dinner and $100 later asked him for twenty cents for a gumball, would he be correct in being pissed about it? Does the fact that you already borrowed an obscene amount make it okay to ask for smaller amounts over and over?

CNSNews wrote:
President Bush and the current administration have borrowed more money from foreign governments and banks than the previous 42 presidents combined, a group of conservative to moderate Democrats said Friday.

Blue Dog Coalition, which describes itself as a group "focused on fiscal responsibility," called the administration's borrowing practices "astounding."

According to the Treasury Department, from 1776-2000, the first 224 years of U.S. history, 42 U.S. presidents borrowed a combined $1.01 trillion from foreign governments and financial institutions, but in the past four years alone, the Bush administration borrowed $1.05 trillion
CNSNews

This is CNS News, the conservative based outlet designed to "show liberal bias in the media". Yes, yes, the value of a dollar in 1776 isn't the same as today but the value of a dollar in 1998 isn't so far off. And doubling 224 years of borrowing is impressive no matter how you spin it.

Even so, my point isn't to harp on Bush per se but to point out that saying "We're already this deep in the hole" is a poor excuse to keep digging a little more for the sake of television. The idea is to get out of the hole, not borrow another three billion for set converters.
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